Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

No, not necessarily. Again, I broke down for colleagues at this committee the humanitarian visas for those who didn't have codes or others. That adds up to something that is different, so you don't necessarily, but you still have to go through the process of screening.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

You don't have to have the codes, yet people were told that they have to have the code. People were desperate to get onto the portal to apply to get the code, but as it turns out, if people can manage to find a way, however they can, to cross the border, they don't need the code and then they can get a TRV.

Officials have been telling.... Some families were told that they should apply for a TRV outside of the special immigration measure, and the minister just confirmed that they don't need a code, so families feel betrayed. I hope the minister understands that. Precious time was lost as people waited to go through this process, but this process got them nowhere because not one person under this process was able to get to safety. However, people who managed to get outside of the process are now able to move along.

How many duplications of applications are there and, because of the wasted time, how many lives have been lost?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I think you're presuming a lot of things to come to that conclusion.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Actually I'm not. I've talked to family members who have lost lives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

One person speak at a time, please.

I will go to the minister.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It's not all as a result of this process. As you know, there is a war in place. We are doing our utmost to bring people to safety.

If people left with a code, then we are able to process them. If they left without a code and they're eligible under the program, we are doing our best to process them. If they are still stuck in Rafah or elsewhere, we are doing our utmost to advocate for their safe exit.

To the best of my knowledge, I don't believe people were told to stay until they got a code. We don't have the appreciation that people would have there about how their lives are threatened, and we don't judge them when they pay an exorbitant fee to leave to keep themselves alive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Madam Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If I could make a final comment, the truth of the matter, then, is people actually didn't need the code. That is the truth, and that should have been told to them right from the beginning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

I go to Mr. McLean for five minutes.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will quote:

There is no doubt that Canadian citizenship is highly valued and recognized around the world. We want...citizenship...to be fair, accessible, with clear and transparent rules.

Minister, for all we've seen in the immigration process programming announced to aid with the emergencies in Sudan and Gaza, it's safe to say that announcements made here in Canada by your government don't mesh with the operational realities that would enable migrants from these two conflict areas. Operationally, you don't have solutions, not for lack of trying, you say.

We know that any government faces resource constraints and that you have to make choices, so the contrast of your inaction on these humanitarian files is stark compared to when you have chosen to take action. You personally, as minister, intervened with Canada Border Services Agency and chose to stay the deportation of Zain Haq. Minister, can you tell us why you dedicated your scarce resources to this intervention?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

There's a lot to unpack there.

First, I will note for this committee that we are not talking, again, about the devastating situations in Gaza and Sudan, and I do not comment on individual cases.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

This is about allocation resources, including the ones you're not allocating—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Wait just a minute. There's a point of order.

Madam Kayabaga, go ahead, please.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I hate to be the bad guy in doing this, but we want to get through these questions. There are so many people who are watching, in the room and online, who want to get answers on Gaza and Sudan. Can we please get to the relevance of the questions from our colleague?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, honourable member.

It's the honourable member's time, five minutes, and it's up to him how he utilizes it, so I will give the floor to him.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

This is about allocation of resources, which include the resources that aren't being allocated to Gaza and Sudan. It's about accountability, Minister. In your own words, “clear and transparent rules”, the quote I read, you're responsible to Parliament. Your intervention under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act is answerable to Parliament, yet here is your response to the question asked of you on this matter on the floor of the House of Commons. You said, “These are not matters we talk about publicly, much less on the floor of the House of Commons.”

Parliamentarians disagree. Your responsibility under section 50 of the IRPA is not a personal right. Maybe you were caught off guard when the question was asked of you in the House of Commons. This is your opportunity today to correct that. Why did you intervene in the deportation order of Mr. Zain Haq?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I would highlight for this committee the patent disregard for those two humanitarian situations in Gaza and Sudan exemplified by the line of questioning posed by Conservative members. This has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Using those as a hook to answer a question for their own sound bites is, I think, typical of what we are facing with Conservative—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

Let me ask the question in a different way.

You aren't allocating the proper resources, because you're misallocating them. Mr. Zain Haq is in Canada on a student visa. The rules for maintaining status with a student visa require abiding by Canadian law—clear and transparent rules that aren't available for Gazans and Sudanese.

Mr. Haq broke Canadian law 10 times, plus a contempt of court order. Do you think this case warrants your intervention more than intervening for Gazans or Sudanese refugees?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Again, these two parallels are disgraceful. If you have a question to ask me about a particular case, you have plenty of opportunities to ask me outside a committee meeting that is dedicated to saving the lives of Gazans and Sudanese.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

You've had months now to save lives, and you've sat on your hands in many respects. You're allocating resources badly.

Let me quote the court ruling against Zain Haq:

Mr. Haq has shown disdain for the rule of law and he has publicly encouraged others to break the law while publicly celebrating his arrest.

Minister, I only get so many chances to ask these questions of you—

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Hold on, Mr. McLean.

I will go to Madam Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a point of order on relevance.

We are here to talk about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and Sudan. The Conservatives seem not to care about them because they want to talk about something else. It's very important that we keep this meeting to relevant subject.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Madam Zahid.

As I said, the honourable member has five minutes and he has only exhausted three minutes and 47 seconds.

Mr. McLean, please go ahead.