Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 12th, 2022

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I can tell the minister that the UNHCR's response to that family was—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry to interrupt—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—it's not their problem when your visa expires before you can get an appointment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Kwan, I'm sorry for interrupting, but the time is up.

As members of Parliament, we hear very heartbreaking stories in our constituency offices. I know a lot of people are going through a lot, but we have to be mindful that we are respectful to our witnesses. Let's work together.

Now we will go to our second round, and we will start with Mr. Redekopp for five minutes.

Mr. Redekopp, go ahead.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the minister and all the witnesses for being here.

Minister, chapter 18 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice lays out the rules about the financial cycle and the main estimates. It says that members have the right to have their grievances addressed before approving requirements of the Crown.

As you're probably aware, one of the grievances that I have deals with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada operations and leadership relating to your associate deputy minister on the production of papers motion that we have that's before IRCC. As you're likely aware, there are some issues with redactions in documents that were finally sent over just yesterday, but there are still two documents that have redactions that we have not been able to see.

When Madam Xavier was here at the committee last week, she was somewhat dismissive about the absolute constitutional authority of the House of Commons to send for documents. Indeed, she actually said that the IRCC was able, through client-solicitor privilege, to redact documents, which I don't believe is true.

I guess my question for you is, bearing in mind that you are also a member of Parliament, a member of the House of Commons, and not just the minister, do you agree with your deputy that IRCC has the authority to override the House of Commons' constitutional authority and withhold information from this committee?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Look, before I address your question, I want to address Madam Chair's comments before.

Let me just say I don't consider any of the questions that I've been asked to be disrespectful. I think if people bring passion and energy to their questions based on the things they really care about, that's appropriate, and I don't mind difficult questions. It's my job to be here and take them.

With respect to Mr. Redekopp's question about the issues around document production and procedure, I think it's for this committee to make decisions about the needs of the committee to do its work. I had been through a similar issue on separate committees before I was a minister, and there is a natural tension that sometimes requires committees to sort things out over time between the laws that bind civil servants and the parliamentary procedures that parliamentarians agree to. I've spoken with quite a number of people over the last number of years who have differing points of view on this particular question and I think reasonable people can disagree.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

The issue is that the redactions are to be looked at by the law clerk, so you're essentially saying—or your department is saying—that you don't trust the law clerk to do the job and that the department is going to do the redactions. That's what I am asking you. Do you agree with your department on that, that it is the right way to go?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I don't think it's for me, as the minister, to proclaim on a dispute on procedure that's before this committee. I think it's for the members of this committee.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I have another question, then.

The production of papers motion asked for documents and specifically asked for all briefing notes, memos and emails from senior officials. I've gone through all the batches that were distributed, and there was one little document that had a few emails in it, but for the rest of it there were no other emails. There were other documents and things.

You have 9,000 people in your department, with hundreds of managers. Can you honestly tell me that besides the very few—these few emails—that went to the deputy minister, zero emails have been exchanged between managers on the subject of racism in the department?

There were lots of fancy presentations made. With COVID, everybody is working remotely. I find it difficult to believe that there were no emails, which should have been released in these production of papers.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think you'll appreciate that, with a department as large as the one that I am responsible for, I don't have a line of sight into the specific email exchanges between people who work in the department.

What's important is that I do have full faith in the officials' ability to review and comply with the instructions that have been included in document production requests, but I think what's important is to understand the process that was employed.

I can't speak from a place of personal knowledge about those individual emails that you're referring to.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that there probably were some emails?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think it's important that I don't make assumptions. I wasn't copied on those emails. I don't know what they would have been and I do have faith that my officials would not be trying to not share them for any dubious purpose.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I want to change gears a little bit to the visitors and international students.

There was a motion yesterday, M-44, talking about the international people who are coming in here. There are people who are living horror stories. I specifically want to talk about the caretaker program. Madam Xavier told me that this is a priority for your department, yet it doesn't seem to be that way.

My question is this: If it is a priority, the numbers in your report show that it is not being successful. How do you account for that?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm sorry. Can you just provide clarity?

You started with international students and then referred to caretakers. If you're referring to caregivers, there are about six different programs that have existed in the last couple of years. Can you just clarify?

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I was referring to the $267 million for visitors, international students and temporary workers, and I want to focus on caregivers in that category.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Your time is up. You will have an opportunity to—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I would maybe invite Mr. Redekopp to.... I took some of the time. If he wants to send a question afterwards, through the committee, I could provide an answer in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Okay.

We will now proceed to Mr. Dhaliwal.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you will have five minutes. You can, please, begin.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I want to thank the honourable minister for being with us today and staying for the full two hours.

From the work we get in our offices, this immigration file is not a very easy one. This is probably one of the most tedious and difficult files, and I want to thank the honourable respected officials who have joined and the staff at IRCC for the work they do to serve Canadians every day.

I would also like to echo the comments made by the honourable member, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, that the minister has been very accessible to this committee and it shows in the number of appearances he has made. I also want to thank the minister for his recent visit to my riding of Surrey—Newton and for participating and responding to many questions and concerns from those at the grassroots level. The minister's hard work and advocacy are much appreciated, and I look forward to hosting him in Surrey again some time very soon.

My question to the minister, Madam Chair, through you, is this: On April 22, the honourable minister made an announcement that express-entry draws for the federal skilled worker and Canadian experience class candidates are set to resume in early July. With Canada having a low unemployment rate, a high number of vacancies, an aging population and a low work rate, could the honourable minister please touch on the importance of reopening the country to qualified skilled workers?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thanks. That's very generous of you with your comments. It's unnecessary, but I appreciate it nevertheless.

Immigration is an economic portfolio, in addition to being a humanitarian portfolio. In my view, it's never been more important than it is today that we embrace immigration as an economic growth strategy.

I look at the extraordinary economic recovery from COVID-19 that we're living through right now. Despite the fact that we've seen record job growth and the lowest unemployment rate since we started keeping track of those statistics, before the omicron variant hit us at the end of the year, there were 965,000 jobs available in Canada. We cannot fill those jobs with a domestic labour force. If we want to maximize our economic potential as a country to pay for all of the things we enjoy, we need to bring more people into that workforce to kick-start even more economic growth.

The announcement that you referred to included an additional component as well, which was for the extension of post-graduate work permits of people that had recently expired or were soon to be expired, so they'll be able to continue to stay and work in Canada.

With respect to the resumption of the draws for the Canadian experience class and federal skilled workers stream, this is really important. There was a significant pause as a result of the decision that was taken during the pandemic to not process certain streams as we were trying to deal with a closed border to protect the public from the spread of COVID-19. It put real pressures on the system. I recognize that some of these people may have been in Canada and may have been eligible for the TR to PR program instead, for example.

The advantage to that pause is about to reveal itself in a very positive way. When we resume the draws in July, we're also going to be back to the ordinary service standard rather than having an unpredictable amount of time before a person will be resettled as a permanent resident. Getting back to a reasonable volume and a reasonable processing time is not just good to give peace of mind to the applicant but certainty to potential employers as well as to when their new, highly skilled talent is going to arrive at the workplace.

This is going to make a very big difference and is going to allow thousands and thousands of people to come and make a contribution to our communities.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Chair, the minister has also made some policy changes to the program TR to PR stream as well.

Could the minister elaborate on how it will help those 90,000 individuals who have applied under the TR to PR stream?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes. You're testing my memory a little bit. I didn't go over my notes from this particular announcement immediately before I showed up.

People who came through the TR to PR program and are fully resettled as permanent residents are here and don't need further support. There were certain restrictions on the TR to PR program that pre-existed my time as minister, including restrictions on their ability to travel and the ability of their family members to apply from overseas.

By making changes to those programs, we're going to make life a little bit easier for people we recognize might still be in the process for a period of time. It will free them up to have opportunities to perhaps travel or have more flexibility in having family members join them. This is an important.

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Minister. The time is up for Mr. Dhaliwal.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, please, the floor is yours.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I do not have much time, but I would like to tell you that I too like you and that I have a great deal of respect for you.

Minister, do you find it acceptable that a quarter of the RCMP officers deployed in Quebec are assigned to the management of Roxham Road, rather than to the fight against arms trafficking at the border?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think you're pitching an argument, and I fundamentally disagree with the pretense that you've laid out.

The proportion of the force that's dealing with one issue versus another is not the problem. Are there adequate resources to deal with all of the challenges that a particular community faces? That's the challenge for me.

Do I think it's acceptable that there is gun violence in Canada? No.