Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 12th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 23 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from recommendations from health authorities as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on Thursday, November 25, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain two-metre physical distancing and must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated. Proper hand hygiene must be maintained by using the hand sanitizer provided in the room. Please refrain from coming into the room if you are symptomatic.

I remind all members and witnesses that all comments should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute, and your camera must be on if you are participating virtually.

Today we are here to study the main estimates 2022-23 and to receive an update on application backlogs as requested by the committee. I would like to welcome the minister to this committee. He will be here with us for the two hours. Thanks a lot also to the officials who have joined him.

Today we are joined by the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, and also by officials from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. We are joined by Caroline Xavier, acting deputy minister; Marian Campbell Jarvis, senior assistant deputy minister, strategic and program policy; Daniel Mills, senior assistant deputy minister, operations; Catherine Scott, assistant deputy minister, settlement and integration; and as well as Hughes St-Pierre, chief financial officer and assistant deputy minister, finance, security and administration.

Thank you, minister, and officials. I welcome you.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. Please begin.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

It is a pleasure to be here with you today.

It's becoming a matter of routine that we get to show up, and I really appreciate the conversations we have at this committee.

It's good to be here again this time to present details of the 2022-23 main estimates for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

IRCC remains dedicated to working with the committee to support our immigration, refugee and asylum systems.

We are committed to maintaining Canada as a leading destination of choice for the world’s most talented and skilled people, and as a country known for its dedication to meeting international humanitarian commitments.

As the committee is aware, we plan to continue our efforts to attract record numbers of skilled workers to help our economic recovery from the pandemic. In addition, we're going to continue to prioritize family reunification and offering shelter to the world’s most vulnerable.

In support of these commitments, these main estimates that we are discussing today reflect the total funding of $3.9 billion. This represents a net increase of $654.4 million compared to last year’s main estimates. The most significant additional allocation in the main estimates is $208.8 million for the implementation of the multi-year immigration levels plans.

To ensure that Canada has the workers that it needs to grow our economy and address our labour shortages, our immigration levels plan aims to continue welcoming an increased number of newcomers in order to continue our recovery from the pandemic. Specifically, the additional funding will allow us to resettle totals of 431,645 permanent residents in 2022, and next year we will see 447,055 new permanent residents.

This builds on our previous plan, with an increased focus on supporting our economic resurgence and post-pandemic growth.

The government also remains firmly committed to our humanitarian efforts, including our plan to resettle at least 40,000 Afghan refugees over the next two years.

More than 12,600 Afghan refugees now call Canada home, and we're going to continue working with our partners in the region and using all other means available to secure safe passage for those aiming to leave Afghanistan and for onward travel to Canada. To support this undertaking, the main estimates contain $106.2 million to support the Afghan resettlement commitment.

They also include $83.5 million for the interim federal health program. As you know, Madam Chair, this program provides temporary health coverage to resettle refugees, asylum seekers and other groups until they are eligible for provincial or territorial health care plans.

These main estimates contain $173 million for the interim housing assistance program.

This program provides financial support to provincial and municipal governments for extraordinary interim housing pressures that result from costs related to both the COVID‑19 pandemic and increased volumes of asylum claimants in recent years.

Madam Chair, as I discussed at a previous appearance, our government is building a modern immigration system that will position Canada to compete on the global stage for the world's best talent. We're already the top destination of choice globally for workers who would like to resettle in another country. We have to make sure our system allows us to take advantage of that fact.

To proceed with building a new, modernized digital and data-driven immigration system, the main estimates also include $33.1 million. As we further adapt our processes to new technology, IRCC continues to explore more options to uphold and improve our client services. Therefore, to support our client support centre, $22.1 million is included in these main estimates.

These are the most significant allocations in the 2022-23 main estimates.

As you're aware, we're committed to an immigration system that supports our economic recovery, addresses our labour shortage, meets the needs of newcomers and serves the interests of communities across Canada. The main estimates we're presenting will help us achieve this.

Once again, thank you to the committee for this opportunity to meet with you.

I would now be pleased to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now proceed to our rounds of questioning.

We will begin our first round with Mr. Hallan.

You will have six minutes. You can please begin.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Calgary Forest Lawn, CPC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First and foremost, thank you to the officials for being here. I'll say it was a pleasure to tour Europe with the minister, and especially with Mr. Mills. Thank you, officials, for everything you're doing.

Right off the bat, I'd like to have the minister and the officials, if they can, provide documents or table with this committee a few things from testimony that we heard from the defence department at the Afghan committee. The first is the number of Afghan cases referred to IRCC by GAC and DND. Secondly, out of those cases, how many are currently in process? The third is the number of those cases that IRCC has made a decision on, whether approved or refused, and if they're refused, the reason for the refusal. Lastly, how many of those cases were withdrawn?

Perhaps we could please have those tabled as soon as possible with the committee.

Minister, Afghan interpreters have brought up concerns about their families, whether they're in Afghanistan or outside, who are being treated as security threats. With respect to the number of people referred by DND or GAC, or Afghans who have applications in the SIM who worked for the Canadian government and their families who have applied for the program, do you know how many have been labelled or identified as security threats to Canada after you've gotten their application from GAC or DND?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Actually, I have some information on your first question. Maybe I'll summarize that, and then address your second point. I do think there was potentially some misunderstanding about the difference between principal applicants, who may have been referred by different departments, and the total number of people who are coming.

With respect to DND, there are actually 3,470 people who have been referred through DND who are in Canada already, and just shy of 3,000 additional people who have been referred by DND who are approved to come to Canada, some of whom might still be in Afghanistan and some whom may be elsewhere.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan]

We were told there were actually 3,800 who were approved by DND, and only 900 have come to Canada, according to DND.

Because of the shortened time, if we can have those things tabled, I think we could go from there. Off the top of your head, were any identified or labelled by DND or GAC as security threats afterwards?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I don't know of the specific individuals who have been labelled as security threats. You won't be approved to come to Canada if you don't pass the biometric assessment, so it's hard to understand which category you're talking about. But I will get you a summary of the number of people who are in Canada and the number of people who've been approved as well. We can provide that information.

I do want to address your second point about the interpreters, because it's really important.

There's not an internally held view that there is a class of people who have served Canada who pose a security threat to our national interests. To the extent that anyone holds that view on anything I have said, I want to make it absolutely clear that is just not the case. We do have a robust security screening process that helps confirm people's identities and to screen for that sort of thing, but for the people who've served Canada as interpreters or otherwise, please know, that is not my view, nor is it the Government of Canada's.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan]

Could the officials confirm that those items will be tabled? Could we could get one of the officials to okay that?

Mr. Mills could you, or anyone...?

[Caroline Xavier, Acting Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Madam Chair, I can attest that we will make whatever information we have available, as per the request of the member.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan]

Thank you.

Minister, it's been almost 12 weeks since I asked a question about visa-free travel for Ukrainians. We passed—obviously without the support of the Liberals in this committee—visa-free travel. Even in the House of Commons, visa-free travel for Ukrainians was passed.

Almost 12 weeks ago, you said it would up to take 12 weeks to set that program up. Is that something you've tried to start, or is it something that would be considered? It was passed in the House of Commons and in this committee, and it's been almost 12 weeks now.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

We made a decision not to proceed with visa-free travel in our Ukraine program and instead put in place the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel. From my perspective, the program is working very well.

We pared off the vast majority of criteria that would normally lead to a finding of inadmissibility, with the exception of biometrics. You had the opportunity during our trip to travel to Warsaw, where you saw the new biometrics collection facility. When we were there, we saw that people were in and out in less than 10 minutes in most cases. Our capacity to process people exceeds the demand that's being put on the system, so the numbers in the inventory will continue to come down if that remains the case.

This has not proven to be a barrier for people to access the program. Maybe it did in the first or early weeks, but right now it seems to be moving quite well, with more than 100,000 people approved.

We've made a decision to stick to the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel, rather than to enter into a visa-free travel regime in the middle of an armed conflict.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan]

We are hearing concerns that.... It's not about the process when we get there. Obviously, the biometrics do not take much time to do. It's about getting the appointment. We're still hearing that it's taking weeks. People have to travel to get them done. Sometimes they're not in the best situation to go there. That's why we asked for this. We continue to hear complaints about that.

Can the minister and his department also table how many applications were refused or rejected after biometrics, when it comes to any type of security threat or something that was brought up?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

We can provide a summary of the number of applications that have been received, the number of approvals that have been granted and the number of refusals. I think we can do that. The specificity to an individual, obviously, would not be permissible, but as a category, I think we can provide those numbers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Hallan, I'm sorry for interrupting, but your time is up. You can come back in the second round.

I will now proceed to MP Ali.

You will have six minutes. Please begin.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials for being here.

Through you, Madam Chair, to the minister, I'd like to first of thank you for your hard work dealing with the Afghan refugees and the Ukraine situation. I truly appreciate your hard work.

My question to the minister is this. I noticed in the estimates that the operating expense for the 2022-23 fiscal year for citizenship and passports is $566.7 million. The fees paid by applicants represent about 66% of the amount, so the government is only required to cover 34% of that overall expense.

Do the estimates take into account the cost associated with the current surge?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I may have to seek a bit of clarity from my officials on the specific budget line item that you're referring to. Rather than have me provide information you might not be looking for, maybe one of our officials on the line could explain whether that takes into account the current surge that we're seeing in this year's main estimates.

If you could clarify whether that includes the additional 500 staff who have been added for the purpose of processing passports as well, that might be helpful. Do we have that information?

[Caroline Xavier]

I can confirm that, yes, we have put in the forecast what was expected for this fiscal year as part of the budget request.

What I would have to confirm—and I'm seeing if my CFO will be able to confirm this—is whether or not it also took into consideration the additional funding related to the comment that our minister made.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, the 2022-23 estimates call for a $10-million increase in grants for the interim housing assistance program, a $15-million increase in grants for the settlement program, a $4-million increase in grants for the resettlement assistance program and a $6-million increase in grants for the international migration capacity building program.

Could the minister give us some insight into the nature of these grants and the impact of adding a total of $35 million to these grants?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, this is an important thing to understand. These numbers are not arbitrary. They reflect an increased number of people who are coming to Canada through different channels. One of the things I think is really helpful to keep in our minds is that, although there's a short-term cost when you want to increase settlement supports for people who come, the long-term return of having more people living in our communities, working in our communities and raising families in our communities is enormous.

The increases in spending that you'll see reflected in the main estimates are a direct result of the decisions we've taken to bring more people to Canada when it comes to the settlement categories. For something like the interim housing assistance program, that's the kind of thing we work on, for example, in partnership with provincial governments that may be required to take on additional expenses as more people enter their particular province.

These numbers that you've cited are a direct reflection of the fact that our ambition and need to have more people arrive in Canada continue to grow. From my perspective, the short-term cost of making sure that people are set up for success when they arrive is dwarfed by the long-term return the people provide after moving to and living in our communities.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Among the tens of thousands of Ukrainians we are expecting to seek refuge in Canada, there will be a thousand young people like the Ukrainian parliamentary intern in my office who will want to continue their education in Canadian colleges and universities. They will not necessarily have the funds available to pay the level of tuition fees that Canadian residents pay, let alone the level of fees that international students are required to pay. There don't appear to be any full or partially funded scholarships for those who come here under the Canada-Ukraine authorization of emergency travel.

Has there been any discussion with provincial governments about improving the situation of these students?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

First of all, I had the opportunity to join for the celebration yesterday evening that welcomed, I believe, 41 Ukrainian interns. Every party in the House of Commons was represented. It was one of the most moving things I've seen in a very long time, when our new arrivals broke into the Ukrainian national anthem. I just want to say thank you to all who were there. It was a moment in my life that I will hold with me for a very long time.

With respect to those who wish to study, we made a decision early on that we would attach eligibility, either for an open work permit or a study permit, to those who come under the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel. I have not personally had conversations to address the costs with provincial governments, though they may be as much with educational institutions as they will be with any level of government.

I am of the view that those who come to study in our institutions make extraordinary economic, social and, frankly, cultural contributions to our communities, to the extent that there's an opportunity for us to explore possibilities. I'm open to it. We have not put in place a plan to address this, as it's quite atypical for the immigration department to engage in questions around scholarships, for example.

However, to the extent that we can look at what tools we have to make it easier for people to live, work and study in Canada, I'm extremely interested from a humanitarian point of view to do the right thing to support people fleeing vulnerable circumstances, but I believe it's in our self-interest to support people who wish to make those kinds of contributions to our communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you. Your time is up.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

You may please begin.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Once again, Minister, thank you for taking the time to appear before the committee. You are very available to this committee, and we are very grateful to you.

There is a very serious scourge raging these days in Quebec, particularly in the Montreal metropolitan area. I'm talking about shootings. Day after day, we see shootings related to criminalized groups, and there are deaths. They happen because gun trafficking is very prolific. Today, it's almost easier for criminalized groups to buy a gun than a pint of milk at the corner store.

We have been told that a quarter of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP, officers deployed in Quebec are managing the Roxham Road instead of dealing with gun trafficking at the border.

Minister, when will you ensure that the safe third country agreement is suspended?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you for the question.

I certainly agree that the problems with guns and gun violence are a scourge.

I will take the liberty of answering the question in my own language, because I will be using technical terms.

One of the things that I think is important is that, when we look at the reason that RCMP officers may be engaged—and I will be careful not to dabble too much in the Public Safety Minister's sandbox here—it's to enforce the laws we have on the books.

It's essential, when we look at our domestic and international legal obligations, that we don't ignore the responsibility we have to enforce those laws. I expect what you're getting to is the engagement of the RCMP who may be involved with processing people who have crossed the border and claimed asylum. What's important to realize is that, if we don't have people set up to process people as they come across the border—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. The minister knows that I only have six minutes, and his answer is a bit too long.

Minister, my question is not complicated: when will the safe third country agreement be suspended?

At present, some RCMP officers are managing Roxham Road instead of doing their job, which is to tackle organized crime and arms trafficking. If this agreement were suspended, that road would be closed. You know that very well, Minister.

Yesterday, the prime minister told us that the government was in discussions with representatives of the United States to modernize the agreement. According to the information I have obtained, these negotiations have stalled, and they are not a priority for your government. What is happening right now is very serious. The situation at Roxham Road has led to an increase in gun trafficking, and the Quebec market is flooded with illegal firearms. As we speak, people are dying. Criminal groups are taking advantage of the situation, since the RCMP cannot do its job properly.

What are you waiting for to suspend the safe third country agreement?