Evidence of meeting #3 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ircc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Your time is up.
Ms. Kwan, you have two minutes and then we will end this panel.
1 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you.
My question is for Mr. Normand.
I was just saying how shocked and disturbed I was to learn that francophone student applicants are being rejected because they're aiming to study outside of Quebec. In light of this information, would you agree that we need to have an ombudsperson to look into a variety of issues, including systemic issues, that might exist in the IRCC?
1 p.m.
Director, Strategic Research and International Relations, Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne
It is indeed an interesting solution, but ombudspersons solve problems for individuals, whereas the problems I am talking about today are problems for our institutions. So it may not be the best solution for the institutions. I completely understand that it may be in other cases.
In our particular case, it is why we must seek to better understand the reality of francophone communities, the realities of life there, and the legitimate paths that can be taken within Canadian francophone institutions.
1 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you. Maybe I was misunderstood. I don't mean say that we need to have an ombudsperson look at individual cases. What that tells me is that there are systemic issues within IRCC that are biased against students for certain criteria, including the fact that if you are French-speaking seeking to study outside of Quebec you could be rejected. To me, that is a systemic issue. That's why I think we need an ombudsperson.
I'd like to ask Mr. Dupuis whether or not he thinks that we need to have an ombudsperson for IRCC.
1 p.m.
Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Yes, we would agree with the creation of an ombudsperson position that could study certain cases, but also, certainly, the directives given to Canadian visa offices. This would be to ensure that there is no systemic discrimination against francophones and people from Africa.
1 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Mr. Camara, you mentioned very quickly federal outcomes and especially—
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kwan. Your time is up.
With that, our panel comes to an end, and on behalf of all the members of the committee—
Mr. Seeback, do you have a question?
1 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
No, I just wanted to raise something before you adjourn the committee. You can finish what you're doing, but I do want to raise something.
1 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm sorry, I'll follow Mr. Seeback. I also want to raise something.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
On behalf of all members, I want to thank the witnesses for providing their important testimony for this study. If there is something you were not able to talk about and would like to bring to the committee's attention, you can send in a written submission to the clerk of the committee. That submission will be distributed to all the members and will be taken into account when we draft the report.
We will quickly go to Mr. Seeback.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I certainly understand the difficulties with the translation of documents. We did receive the briefs for today via email at 11:18, and I'm just hoping that we can have those briefs in advance of meetings. I would have liked to have had a chance to read them. My questions would have been far more informed, and I think the study then, of course, would be better.
If at all possible, can we please get those briefs the day before or even a few hours before the meeting starts?
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thanks for bringing that to our attention. I'll discuss it with the clerk, and we will make sure that whatever communication can be made to the members, we will do.
Ms. Kwan.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would certainly echo Mr. Seeback's request. I noted, not just for this meeting but for the last meeting as well, we received documentation for the committee meeting after the meeting had started. In my case, as I'm Zooming in, I'm looking at all kinds of different computers and checking to see what documents have come in. It would be really important for committee members to receive these documents at least a day in advance of the committee so that we can actually read them and be informed, so that we can ask questions and make the best use of our time with the witnesses.
The other issue that I want to raise, Madam Chair, is this. Throughout both of these panels, it became apparent that with the Chinook system and its usage, there is a potentially widespread problem with rejection rates, so it would be very useful for committee members to have some data to make that assessment.
I would like, through you, Madam Chair, to request of the ministry and the department to obtain this data. Since the inception of Chinook, how many applications has the system assessed, broken down by stream? How many of them have been rejected, broken down by country?
The other thing I would like to have with the Chinook system is the risk words or phrases that are utilized to flag or red-flag applications, broken down again by stream as well.
I think for us to have that information would be very useful going forward, Madam Chair.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Ms. Kwan. I'll make sure that request is put in.
In regard to the distribution of documents for the last meeting on Tuesday, we had to first adopt the subcommittee report. The documents can only be sent after the subcommittee report is adopted.
We will make sure whatever documentation or submissions we get from the witnesses are distributed to the members in time.
Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
My colleagues have addressed many of the issues I wanted to raise. In fact, I agree with what they have just said.
I just want to add one thing. Madam Chair, I certainly don't want to tell you [technical difficulties]...
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Okay.
I was saying what a good job you are doing, Madam Chair. I think you are doing an incredible job. The only thing I want to say is that there could be a little less rigidity with regard to speaking time. Sometimes witnesses are just about to finish their answers and they are cut off very quickly. I would be happy, sometimes, if witnesses were allowed to finish their sentence or at least asked to finish, rather than being cut off and not being able to finish their speech properly.
Having said that, you are doing an excellent job and I am sure we will adapt.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I have been giving a one-minute card, a 30-second warning card and a stop card, so I hope members and the witnesses can start wrapping up when I give a warning. We have to make sure that equal opportunity and equal time is provided to all the members, so in many cases I have to interrupt.
We will see how we can work it out better.
Yes, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
If I may, Madam Chair, it is not always easy to see your cards on Zoom. It's not your fault, we are all trying to adapt. I'm just asking for a little less rigidity to allow witnesses to finish their sentences properly.
That's all I wanted to say, Madam Chair.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Okay. We will try to make sure we run this smoothly and accommodate everyone, but we have to be fair to everyone.
Thanks for bringing your concerns. We will make sure they are looked into.
With that, I once again thank all the witnesses for appearing before this committee and providing important contributions.
The meeting is now adjourned.