Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 18th, 2022

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I would like to ask you this. You are working in a rural area, and I know that fundraising is not easy for your group. Who finances you? Is it some organization or some entity? Is it the government, or is it people who donate? Can you please elaborate on that a bit?

[Mark Ballard]

If we go back to 2015, when Syria was in the forefront of the media...it's no longer there. Donations have dropped off just as much as volunteerism for our group has dropped off. We are a totally volunteer organization, and we run on donations. The donations come from various groups. At one time, St. Francis Xavier University raised $100,000 for us, but that was the best we ever achieved and it has slowly gone down since then.

We go by donation. In a lot of cases, if it's private sponsorship, the monies are raised by families who want family reunification. It's trying for them, as well, to raise $20,000 or $30,000 when they're on a shoestring budget as it is.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ballard.

Ms. Desloges, would you be favourable to a permanent tool that could be used to select applicants according to economic need? Elaborate on that, if you wouldn't mind.

In addition, you said the system lacked transparency and was ineffective. Can you give us some examples of that and tell us what you would recommend to improve things?

[Chantal Desloges]

Sure. I am absolutely in favour of any tool that allows Canada to be more nimble in terms of selecting immigrants who are better for our economy, based on economic need. I think any innovations or any efforts in that direction are definitely a positive thing, 100%, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. The time is up for Mr. El-Khoury.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please begin.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I, too, would like to thank the witnesses for being here today to participate in this extremely important study. I also want to thank them for their patience, given the unexpected interruption. I'm glad everyone waited.

I'd like to talk more about specifics.

Congratulations to you, Mr. Ballard, on the work your organization does, and please congratulate your 12 volunteers for me.

What I've noticed is that when an international crisis occurs—such as the situation in Afghanistan, the situation in Ukraine or the earthquake in Haiti—the backlog grows because some of IRCC's work is done by officers on the ground. Is that something your organization has noticed?

We shouldn't stick our heads in the sand: international crises are going to occur more and more often. Should the department create a permanent mechanism to deal with emergency cases in preparation for those situations, instead of deploying officers every time?

[Mark Ballard]

Our protocol tells us that we want to bring to Canada the most vulnerable people available to us through the government entities and through UNHCR.

About a year ago, I suppose, when the Afghan crisis or the Afghan operation was announced, we certainly had concerns about the division of manpower around handling the different countries and the different situations. We were advised that this would not hinder any of the processes that we have already.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We found out that 15% to 25% of the department's officers were assigned to work solely on applications stemming from the crisis in Afghanistan. However, the department told you that it wouldn't impact processing times for the people you work with. Do I have that right?

[Mark Ballard]

That's correct.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ballard.

I'm going to ask you the same question, Ms. Desloges. When an international crisis arises, does the backlog grow, in your view?

[Chantal Desloges]

Absolutely. You're right.

It has almost become a joke among lawyers. It just seems to be an excuse after a while. It's like, right now, they're doing everything about Afghanistan; right now, everything is about Ukraine; right now, it's about Syria. It's like a never-ending line of excuses as to why cases can't be processed in time.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Desloges. That confirms what we thought. I think it's pretty unanimous.

You brought up the culture of secrecy and lack of transparency at the department. One of the things witnesses have recommended is to record applicant interviews conducted by officers. Do you think that would make for greater transparency?

[Chantal Desloges]

Yes, I absolutely do. I am in favour of taping them. What possible reason could there be not to do it? If everything is being done according to the way it should be, why would anyone want to hide behind a wall of secrecy with respect to taping? Many of us record our meetings. When you have a court proceeding, everything is recorded. It makes sense.

Not only that, but all of these notes, internal conversations and any recordings or transcripts of interviews should be given to the applicant as a matter of course. You shouldn't have to do an access to information request in order to get information about your own personal file.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

This brings me to the possibility of having an ombudsman. For many this would be a panacea, but others have had some reservations. I fall somewhere in between. I think the idea of an immigration ombudsman is an interesting one, but what kind of ombudsman to have would have to be determined.

This is where I think there are differences of opinion. So I'd really like you to give me yours, because you're still an expert in this area.

[Chantal Desloges]

It's a great backup solution, but what I would really love to see is the creation of a culture where we don't need one—a culture where your questions would be answered clearly and on time.

I'm not opposed to the idea of an ombudsman. It is probably a good thing. It creates a buffer zone between all of these members of the public who are very anxious about their cases and the bureaucracy, which is also stressed.

As members of Parliament, I'm sure you see it all the time. A lot of the queries in your offices would be immigration-related. It would be nice to have someone to take care of all that.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Pagaduan, I am running out of time and you have not been asked a question. Your presence at this committee meeting is much appreciated.

I would just like to give you the floor to find out what your priority would be, and why.

[Vilma Pagaduan]

It would be TR upon arrival for all caregivers and six months processing time, so they can clear the backlog. It would also be outright open work permits for those who applied for PR since 2019, since the introduction of the new program.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Do I have any time left, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have one minute and 30 seconds.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Ballard, a solution had been proposed and applied during the Kosovo war: biometric tests were carried out upon arrival on Canadian soil by border services officers. However, this has not been done since.

Could allowing border services officers to perform biometric tests on site be a way to relieve congestion at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada offices?

[Mark Ballard]

It is a good question. I don't really know enough about it. We don't see that taking place at the moment with the refugee people.

Every embassy seems to be a different country. We never know what processing times are going to take place at the embassies.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Indeed, all the embassies seem to be different countries. There is no consistency at Global Affairs in this regard.

Ms. Desloges, let me come back to that same question. In your opinion, during an international crisis, could biometric tests be conducted on Canadian soil, since border services officers have the training and authorization to do so?

[Chantal Desloges]

I wouldn't recommend that, to be honest, because the procedure to remove someone who is a security risk after their feet have already hit Canadian soil is much more difficult than screening them beforehand. I don't think I would recommend that as a course of action unless you're in a case of a really serious local emergency.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

All right. I thank all the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please begin.