Evidence of meeting #44 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was claim.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Richard Wex  Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee Board
Aaron McCrorie  Vice-President, Intelligence and Enforcement, Canada Border Services Agency
Commissioner Michael Duheme  Deputy Commissioner, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Martin Roach  Acting Criminal Operations Officer, C Division, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Stéphane Handfield  Lawyer, Handfield et Associés, Avocats, As an Individual
Yannick Boucher  Director, Strategic Development and Research, Accueil liaison pour arrivants
Marzieh Nezakat  Manager, Refugee Settlement and Integration Program, Multilingual Orientation Service Association for Immigrant Communities

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 44 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Today, we will continue our study of the conditions faced by asylum seekers.

I confirm that all witnesses have conducted the required technical tests in preparation for this meeting.

Before we get to the witnesses for today, I would like to confirm that the minister of citizenship and immigration is prepared to appear on Tuesday, November 29, on the supplementary estimates (B) and Canada's immigration levels plan, 2023-25. The Tuesday meeting will be with the minister. I wanted to confirm that with everyone.

On December 2, we will have our final panel on conditions faced by asylum seekers, and then a subcommittee meeting to discuss future business, as requested by members at the last meeting.

On December 6, we are planning to begin our study on the government's response to the final report of the Special Committee on Afghanistan.

On Friday, December 9, we will provide drafting instructions for our report on the conditions faced by asylum seekers.

Yes, Mr. Redekopp.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Madam Chair, I want to circle back to the minister's appearance next week.

We asked him to come to talk about the supplementary (B)s. We intend to ask him to come and talk about the immigration plan again. Those will be two separate things.

That was not what we wanted for.... We just want the supplementary (B)s on Tuesday.

Thank you.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

This is the information I received. He is willing to appear and he's prepared to talk on both the supplementary estimates and Canada's immigration levels plan. That's the information we received from his office.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

You can circle back with him and let him know that we'll be calling him again for the plan as well.

Thank you.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Okay.

Ms. Kwan, go ahead.

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to reiterate that point. The committee passed two motions. One was to invite the minister to come for the supplementary estimates and the other was to invite the minister separately for the levels plan. There are two separate invitations.

I appreciate that he can come and talk to things of all manner, which I'm sure committee members will appreciate. However, that said, there are two separate invites. We should make sure that he understands that and that the clerk extends an additional invite for the levels plan.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you.

We'll have Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and then Ms. Lalonde.

I'm sorry. I can't see everyone. I'm relying on the information I'm getting from the clerk.

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair, but Ms. Kwan just raised the point I was going to make so I don't need to comment.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Lalonde, go ahead.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marie-France Lalonde Liberal Orléans, ON

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the comments from my colleagues, but don't think it's up to us to decide precisely what subjects will be addressed by the minister. The decision is his. I'm somewhat surprised by what my colleagues said.

I was proud to see that the minister wanted to make himself available to command see us. We don't know exactly what his future schedule looks like, but I took a great deal of pride in learning that the minister was committed to coming here to talk to us about matters of interest to all of us, including the immigration plan. I think that's very generous of him. I just wanted to make sure people understood that.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, the floor is yours.

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Madam Chair, I can understand the Liberals taking pride in having one of their ministers appear before the committee, but saying that this is generous is going rather too far. After all, he's not the Pope. The minister is paid to come and see us, particularly as the committee has adopted two motions to that effect. He simply needs to do what the committee, whose decisions take precedence, is asking of him. That's all.

But then it's all right for my colleague to be proud.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

I will address this and get back to you as I get more information.

With that, I want to inform you that we will have a few minutes at the end to go through committee business about the issue put for Friday, last Tuesday.

We can now go to our witnesses.

I would like to welcome all witnesses appearing before the committee. Today, we are joined by the Immigration and Refugee Board, represented by Richard Wex, chairperson and chief executive officer; Roula Eatrides, deputy chairperson, refugee protection division; and Gary Dukeshire, senior counsel.

We are also joined by the Canada Border Services Agency, represented by Aaron McCrorie, vice-president, intelligence and enforcement; and Carl Desmarais, director general, enforcement.

We also have witnesses from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, represented by Michael Duheme, deputy commissioner; and Superintendent Martin Roach, acting criminal operations officer, C division.

Welcome to all of the witnesses. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

We will begin with the Immigration and Refugee Board.

Please begin.

1:05 p.m.

Richard Wex Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Refugee Board

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As you mentioned, I'm joined today by Ms. Roula Eatrides, deputy chairperson of the refugee protection division, and Mr. Gary Dukeshire, our senior counsel.

I know the committee is particularly interested in IRB's refugee claims inventory, wait times and projections, so I'll get right to the point and dispense with the usual introduction about our role and mandate in the context of the asylum system. I assume you are well briefed on that.

When I testified before the committee for the first time as the new chair of the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada in 2018, the operating environment was very challenging.

A surge in refugee claims, both regular and irregular, has far outstripped the IRB's annual processing capacity, leading to the largest backlog and longest wait times in the board's 30-year history.

At the time, we assessed that, without interventions, the backlog would reach well over 200,000 claims by 2022-23, with wait times in excess of six years for a first-level refugee determination. The system, in our view, at that time, was on the brink of collapse. As a result, in 2018-19, the IRB responded by developing an ambitious growth and transformation agenda.

As we are now in the fourth year of implementing our plan, I'd like to tell you about some key outcomes, along with a brief summary of future challenges.

I'll begin by talking about growth.

Since 2018-19, the board has received significant temporary investments by way of successive federal budgets, which allowed us to effectively double our decision-making output and better align IRB's annual processing capacity with the refugee claim intake.

This was a massive scaling-up in a relatively short amount of time for our organization. This growth, coupled with internal efficiencies and pandemic-related border restrictions, led to improved access to justice for existing claimants in our inventory, as measured by the number of claims adjudicated and a reduction in wait times.

Most recently, budget 2022 announced that the funds previously provided in recent budgets to the IRB, on a temporary basis, will be made permanent, and that the IRB will also receive additional funds over two years to process additional claims.

Subject to the approval of Parliament, these funds will allow our organization not only to stabilize at the current levels, but also to continue to build capacity that can handle the increasing number of asylum claims being received.

As part of our transformation agenda, we've implemented a range of measures to improve both the efficiency and quality of our decision-making.

One part of the program that I would like to point out is our hearings operating model. The board took advantage of the opportunities created by the pandemic to become a digital organization.

In 2020-21, during the height of the pandemic, the board moved to a paperless and virtual hearings operating model. All files have since been digitized. Adjudicators now work almost entirely with digital files. An electronic portal has been built and well adopted by the counsel community. Over 98% of our hearings are now held virtually.

Moving to a virtual hearings operating posture allowed the board to protect the health of both our employees and those appearing before the board, while maintaining access to justice during the toughest days of the pandemic. It was key to keeping our inventories and wait times in check. In fact, according to the latest UNHCR global trends report, Canada was one of only four countries, over the previous year, that was able to significantly reduce its inventory of asylum cases at the refugee determination stage during the pandemic.

Thanks to new investments and the new measures implemented under our plan, the refugee protection division and the refugee appeal division handled more asylum claims and calls last year than ever before.

In 2018-19, when I first appeared at this committee in this capacity, in this very room, wait times were at two years and were growing at a pace not previously seen. Today wait times for new claimants are at 16 months, down 25% from where they were in 2018-19 and down almost 30% from their peak in the spring of 2020. At the end of Q1 of this fiscal year, wait times at the IRB were at their lowest since 2016-17, prior to the unprecedented influx of claimants.

Given the operating context over the last few years, by any measure these are solid results.

Despite these positive developments at the IRB, I do need to be very clear: The tide has now clearly turned. The IRB and certainly the asylum system as a whole are once again under real strain. As you've heard, the pending eligibility inventory at IRCC and CBSA is growing quickly. Their intake this year is projected to be some 90,000-plus claims, well beyond the system's and IRB's annual processing capacity of up to 50,000. Referrals to the board are now outpacing our annual processing capacity, leading once again to growing inventories and wait times, reversing hard-won gains.

We therefore need to redouble our efforts to improve system efficiency and move forward with funding strategies that can deal with these realities, improve access to justice and better support the Canadian refugee determination system.

Thank you.

Roula will answer all of your questions.

1:10 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I'm sorry for interrupting. The time is up.

Next is the Canada Border Services Agency.

You have five minutes. Please begin.

1:10 p.m.

Aaron McCrorie Vice-President, Intelligence and Enforcement, Canada Border Services Agency

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon. I am Aaron McCrorie, the vice-president of intelligence and enforcement at the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA. I am joined today by my colleague Carl Desmarais, the director general of enforcement at CBSA.

I'd like to speak briefly about the role of the CBSA in processing asylum claims, particularly when they are irregular entries, most of which are at Roxham Road.

Maintaining border security and integrity is a role shared by the CBSA and the RCMP.

The CBSA is responsible for enforcing legislation at designated ports of entry. The RCMP is responsible for enforcing the law between ports of entry.

When a refugee claimant enters Canada to make an asylum claim, the CBSA's role is to determine that person's admissibility into Canada and the eligibility of their claim under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, or IRPA.

To date in 2022, the CBSA has received over 2,400 regular refugee claims, mostly from claimants arriving by air. In comparison, this year the CBSA has received over 32,000 irregular arrivals. Of those, more than 97% are in the province of Quebec. Most irregular arrivals are crossing the Canada-U.S. border at Roxham Road. It is not an official border crossing.

Under the safe third country agreement, people seeking refugee protection must make a claim in the first country they arrive in—in this case, either Canada or the U.S.—unless they qualify for an exception. This agreement applies to those making refugee claims at designated ports of entry, but does not apply to asylum seekers entering Canada outside of official border crossings.

That means that unless their ineligibility was previously established, the CBSA cannot deny entry to asylum seekers arriving from the United States at Roxham Road.

When the RCMP intercepts a person entering between official ports of entry, the person is brought to the nearest port of entry to make a refugee claim. In this case, the nearest port of entry to Roxham Road is Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle.

Before refugee claimants can leave the port of entry, they first undergo robust health and security screening. This includes biographic and biometric checks, as well as the initiation of security and criminality checks.

The CBSA is committed to processing all asylum claims in a timely manner, but the process can take a while. The time required depends on a number of factors, such as the amount of detailed information supplied by the claimant, the availability of additional information, and whether or not further research is required.

Security screening is an important aspect in assessing eligibility to enter Canada. The process ensures that anyone who wants to enter Canada has not committed any serious offences and does not constitute a security risk to Canada or Canadians.

Several factors are used to determine an individual's admissibility, such as participation in criminal activities, human rights violations and organized crime activities.

Besides admissibility, CBSA officers must decide if a claim is eligible to be referred to the IRB for a hearing. Factors that determine a claimant's eligibility include whether the claimant has committed a serious crime, made a previous claim in Canada or if the claimant received protection previously in another country.

To ensure that refugee claimants from Roxham Road have a safe, comfortable, and appropriate waiting space while their claim is processed, the CBSA invested in short-term accommodations. We ensure that claimants have access to beds, showers, meals, and medical care, if required, while they are being processed. These are at the regional processing centre near the Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle point of entry. In light of the unprecedented demands in this area, this is the only CBSA office in Canada that uses temporary structures to accommodate refugee claimants.

The CBSA encourages refugee claimants to enter Canada at designated points of entry. This is to ensure their personal safety, as well as respect for the law. However, the number of irregular arrivals continues to increase. As I have already noted, since January 1, the CBSA processed over 32,000 irregular arrivals in Quebec, mostly at the Roxham Road crossing. We are working very hard to address this surge in volumes, including the reallocation of resources from other regions to support our colleagues in Quebec, sharing the workload with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, and creating a digital portal.

In addition, to help speed up processing times, the CBSA began a new process for low risk claimants on November 1. This process allows applicants to be admitted to Canada under conditions during which time they can access social benefits and a work permit. Applicants are then guided to the Canadian refugee protection portal to complete their refugee claim within 45 days.

Whether or not asylum seekers choose to present their claim at an official point of entry, CBSA is committed to treating all those who seek protection in Canada with care and compassion.

We look forward to answering your questions and working with you to improve our refugee processing centre.

Thank you.

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you, Mr. McCrorie.

We will now proceed to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

1:20 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner Michael Duheme Deputy Commissioner, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Madam Chair, committee members, good afternoon. My name is Mike Duheme. I'm the deputy commissioner for federal policing in the RCMP.

I'm accompanied by Martin Roach who oversees and manages the situation at Roxham Road. Today, we will speak about the RCMP's law enforcement activities at the border.

Canada, like other western countries, is faced with the task of managing increasing irregular migration flows, which involves addressing humanitarian needs while also ensuring that those who could pose a public safety or security threat are not admitted into Canada.

No one is likely to question the fact that the illicit movement of people between points of entry, including the illegal entry of asylum seekers at the border, is an ongoing problem. However, it must not be forgotten that at the heart of this matter we find vulnerable people, including refugees and asylum seekers who have often undertaken a long and perilous voyage to get to Canada. These people are easy prey for human traffickers, operated by transnational organized crime groups known for their acts of violence and other criminal activities.

That's why the RCMP makes every effort to strike a balance between performing its mandate, which is to keep Canada secure, and its responsibility for ensuring that people like these who have been apprehended are treated with compassion and respect, and have access to recourse under the act.

I would like to take a few minutes to provide some context on the RCMP's approach to enforcing the law at the border to clarify how and when the RCMP's interactions with individuals take place.

With respect to Canadian law, anyone found crossing the Canadian border without reporting at an official port of entry may be arrested by the RCMP. That said, when individuals are intercepted by the RCMP entering illegally between the ports of entry, they are arrested under subsection 11(1) of the Customs Act, but their intentions are not immediately known. As such, a preliminary risk assessment is conducted to determine if there is any threat posed to Canada or Canadians. Background checks are undertaken to see if there has been any prior involvement in illegal activities, including, for example, drug trafficking, connections to organized crime or links to terrorism.

Each situation is assessed individually before a determination is made on how to proceed, that is, whether an individual should remain in RCMP custody pending further investigation, be referred to another police service jurisdiction, or be transferred to the CBSA for the asylum claim to be assessed. It is the totality of the information obtained by the RCMP through a preliminary risk assessment that a search of personal documents is utilized and reviewed to make an assessment of the risk individuals may pose.

It is important to note that the RCMP does not charge those intercepted who are attempting to enter Canada to make an asylum claim, as this would be in contravention of the Immigration Refugee Protection Act, which states that individuals may not be charged with certain offences related to their illegal entry while their refugee claim is being processed.

As for Roxham Road, the RCMP, in compliance with its border integrity role, deploys teams in those areas where the highest levels of activity occur in order to apprehend asylum-seekers, more and more of whom are crossing between the official points of entry.

At the moment, the largest number of illegal migrants is in Quebec, at Roxham Road. From 2017 to 2021, approximately 95% of RCMP interceptions were at this location. As is the case at other locations, each person apprehended by the RCMP at Roxham Road undergoes a thorough background check before the RCMP decides what action to take.

While the screening process is necessary to effectively discharge the RCMP's mandate to protect the integrity of our borders, our members ensure that these processes are undertaken with humanity and compassion, respecting the rights of irregular migrants and their human dignity.

In order to ensure that balance is met, Canada's approach has been, and continues to be, examined by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Canada.

In the spirit of transparency, the RCMP in Quebec has facilitated several visits and offered briefings to UNHCR. We are proud of the fact that the RCMP resources on the ground are doing the job that they are mandated to do, and they are doing it in a professional and exemplary fashion.

Nevertheless, the RCMP's main interest is the ongoing improvement of its efforts to enforce the act at the border. A coordinated border management approach is essential to long-term success, and it would enable the RCMP to achieve its multiple operational objectives, including measures to combat cross-border drug and weapons trafficking, in addition to trafficking in persons and human smuggling.

We look forward to working with our international partners and our national partners, such as the CBSA and the IRCC, to continue implementing this approach while prioritizing the safety of Canada and Canadians, ensuring the compassionate treatment of irregular migrants.

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak about these important issues.

I'm now happy to take any questions.

Thank you.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you.

We will now proceed to our round of questioning, beginning with Mr. Redekopp.

Mr. Redekopp, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. You can begin, please.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today. Thanks for all of the important work you're doing with migrants and newcomers to our country. It's great work that you do.

I want to start with the RCMP.

As you know, Quebec has its own police force, so the RCMP is focused on drug awareness, organized crime, national security, those types of things and, of course, border law enforcement.

If you don't know the answers to my questions as follow, please submit them in writing within a fairly short time. We have a report to do, so maybe seven days would be helpful.

Can you please tell the committee how many members make up the C Division of the RCMP?

1:25 p.m.

D/Commr Michael Duheme

There are about 700 to 800 altogether in the division.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

How many members are currently assigned to border enforcement in total?

1:25 p.m.

Superintendent Martin Roach Acting Criminal Operations Officer, C Division, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

At present, there are, give or take, depending on pressure, probably about 120 or so.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Of those 120, how many are at Roxham Road?