Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 25th, 2022

[Marzieh Nezakat, Manager, Refugee Settlement and Integration Program, Multilingual Orientation Service Association for Immigrant Communities]

Thank you for the opportunity to appear on this very important subject.

My name is Marzieh Nezakat, and I am the manager of refugee settlement and integration at MOSAIC.

MOSAIC is one of the largest not-for-profit organizations in Canada, serving immigrant, refugee and mainstream communities throughout the province of B.C. and overseas via online programs. MOSAIC is also one of the largest organizations funded by the province to serve refugee claimants in partnership with other agencies across B.C.

At MOSAIC, I oversee programs that serve approximately 2,000 refugee claimants each year. I also oversee the B.C. refugee claimant housing referral and data management system, BC CHARMS, the first of its kind in western Canada. This province-wide centralized housing referral system aims at connecting refugee claimants with safe and affordable housing across the province of B.C.

Today, I would like to take time to highlight some of the experiences of refugee claimants served by MOSAIC relating to their safety, security and health.

At Christmastime 2021, I received a call from the Red Cross about a family of 11 who had irregularly crossed the border and were intercepted by the RCMP. They were covered in mud, hungry and robbed and looking for shelter and food.

A young woman in her twenties, crossing the border irregularly and not intercepted, had somehow found her way to MOSAIC's office in the late afternoon. She was soaking wet and shaking, repeatedly asking in her native language if we were going to send her back to the border or if she was going to be deported.

After irregularly crossing the border and being intercepted by the RCMP, a pregnant woman in her seventh month, whose husband was deported at the U.S., was sent to MOSAIC to receive support for food and shelter. She was then called to the CBSA office, detained for the night and sent back to the U.S. Her cousin told us later about her difficult situation at the immigration holding centre the night before she was sent back.

A single mom and three young children were found by the VPD on the streets of Vancouver around midnight. A VPD officer had a connection with a church that took care of them for the night before sending them to MOSAIC.

Over the past two months, MOSAIC has received two families who, as indicated by the STCA, were found ineligible to make a claim in Canada. With an exclusion order banning them to re-entry Canada for a year, they crossed the border irregularly and found their way to MOSAIC for help.

The amount of trauma these families with their young kids have gone through is beyond expression, considering the fact that many of these individuals might have been subject to human trafficking to make their way to Canada. Not having their status, the guilt and shame of having crossed the border irregularly and having been denied a refugee claim has a toll on these refugee claimants.

According to IRCC statistics from January to October of this year, the number of refugee claimants intercepted by the RCMP in B.C. has increased by 133% compared with the same time last year, and 30% compared with the prepandemic time in 2019 for refugee claimants who crossed the border without being intercepted or having made a claim inland.

When claiming at official ports of entry, claimants can immediately apply for income assistance, which is received in less than three weeks, and receive a deadline of less than two months for their eligibility interview. If found eligible, they can anticipate receiving a work permit in three to four months. However, when making a claim inland, the claim process takes months longer and claimants are left with no income assistance and delayed work permits of up to 18 months, which makes earning a living nearly impossible.

Knowing these drawbacks to making a claim inland, why would refugee claimants take the risk of irregularly crossing the border? The answer is the risk of being deported or returned to the U.S. The majority of individuals who cross the border have exhausted their financial resources in making their way from their countries of origin into transitory countries and on to South America, continuing through the U.S. and eventually reaching Canada.

By not being able to obtain a work permit in a timely manner, they are left with seeking aid by the community or settlement agencies, or, as their last resort, working illegally, which by itself is a whole different story about getting exposed to discrimination, stigmatization and all sorts of potential abuse by employers.

In closing, I want to remind the respective committee and community that despite all the challenges refugee claimants face, they have contributed and continue to contribute immensely to Canada's social fabric. MOSAIC recognizes that seeking asylum is a human right, along with the humanitarian principles of impartiality, independence and neutrality that we seek in our daily practices.

Thank you again for the opportunity to speak today. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Nezakat, for your opening remarks.

We will now go to our rounds of questioning. We will have one round of questioning of five minutes each. Then we will go in camera for the committee business for the last 10 minutes.

We will start our round of questioning with Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Berthold, you will have five minutes for your round of questioning. Please begin.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.

First off, I'd like to thank the committee members for giving me the opportunity to take the floor and ask questions today.

Whether it happens at Roxham Road or elsewhere in Canada, as Ms. Nezakat just pointed out, irregular immigration is a major concern. We're talking about people crossing the border illegally. What we tend to forget is that, first and foremost, these are people and families who have gone through difficult times before they decided to come to Canada. These are, above all, human stories. Unfortunately, we overlook that reality a little too often in the whole process.

I can confirm that we hear sad stories every day in our constituency offices. I'm thinking of a recent example where an individual who had entered Canada at Roxham Road with their family and was well integrated into the community was just ordered deported. This leads me to say that we probably have issues in terms of how we welcome people; we're not giving them a proper welcome.

Roxham Road is an alternative that you seem to disagree with, Mr. Handfield, since you're calling for the suspension of the Safe Third Country Agreement. In practical terms, what would suspending the agreement change for people who cross the border illegally?

[Stéphane Handfield]

People will be able to go to an official checkpoint in Quebec or anywhere else on Canadian soil.

Due to that agreement, asylum seekers have no choice but to go through Roxham Road, otherwise they become ineligible for refugee status and they are returned to the United States. Suspending the agreement will redirect this flow of asylum seekers to official checkpoints, where they can be properly processed by Canadian authorities in Quebec and across Canada, as things were done before the agreement came into effect in 2002.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That's precisely my concern. Right now, our capacity to accommodate is not up to par. We've seen it and all the evidence points to it: We can't take in more people.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm concerned that suspending the Safe Third Country Agreement would send out a message that Canada's borders are open, you can cross anywhere, let's get moving, and that smugglers or other bad people all over the U.S. and all the way down to South America will take advantage of that opportunity. Unfortunately, I don't believe Canada is in a position to take in that many people in such a short time.

Mr. Handfield and Mr. Boucher, I'd like to hear what each of you has to say about this.

[Stéphane Handfield]

Actually, the message going out to people right now is that they can come to Canada through Roxham Road. There's currently nothing preventing thousands of migrants, regardless of where they are, from coming to Canada using that route. The message we're sending is that they can come to Canada, but instead of the usual route, they can choose the irregular one, because that way they will have more rights, including a right of appeal.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

You're saying we're going to open even more doors to get a lot more Canadians.

[Stéphane Handfield]

That's not what I'm saying. We're going to spread asylum seekers across Canada, like we did before.

As you know, Article 10 of the agreement allows the government to unilaterally suspend the agreement for up to three months, and the suspension can be extended for further periods of up to three months at a time. So the government may well suspend the agreement and see how things go on the ground. After that—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I understand that, Mr. Handfield. Sorry to interrupt you, but my time is running out fast.

[Stéphane Handfield]

Okay, I understand.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I want to make sure we understand.

I fear that the message we're sending out will bring on an influx of asylum seekers. To avoid that, it would have to be coupled with a campaign to explain what people need to do to be properly welcomed into Canada.

I'll go back to the specific case I cited earlier. It takes a very long time for a refugee claimant to know whether their claim has been accepted or not. In fact, the outcome may only be available two or three years later. As a lawyer, you know that it can take a very long time. It's not easy for an asylum seeker to have their claim rejected and then return to their country of origin after living on hope for so long. I'll say it again: we're talking about human beings. It's dreadful to put people who are hoping to find a home in Canada in situations like that.

Time is running out fast, but I'd like to hear your comments, Mr. Boucher.

[Yannick Boucher]

I kind of agree with my counterpart. I'm not so sure that Canada can't take in more people. Canada doesn't even to 5% of the world's refugees, and that number has declined over the years.

Personally, I think it's a good idea to spread it out, so that the responsibility is shared among the provinces and not concentrated in Quebec. Quebec is low on resources right now and everyone is at the end of their rope.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Sorry for interrupting, Mr. Boucher. The time is up.

We will now go to Mr. El-Khoury.

Mr. El-Khoury, you will have five minutes for your round of questioning.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses.

My first question is for Ms. Nezakat.

Ms. Nezakat, thank you for your testimony. You gave some very touching examples. It was heartbreaking to hear them.

I'd like to ask you why you feel so many more people are using the services of your organization, MOSAIC.

[Marzieh Nezakat]

MOSAIC has always received many refugee claimants, as I mentioned. We are one of the major organizations in B.C. working with refugee claimants. We have a specific stream of services for refugee claimants. Like any other organization, we had decreasing numbers during COVID, but then as the borders opened in November 2021, we started receiving many more refugee claimants.

As I mentioned—and I shared the statistics from B.C.—the number of people who are now trying to cross irregularly and are intercepted by the RCMP has increased. I believe one reason is.... Compared with the past two years, we are past COVID and the borders are now open, but when you compare this with prepandemic times, the numbers have increased, but not to a degree that is unprecedented.

One of the major reasons for this increase would be the refugee crisis all around the world. When you compare the situation of the world today with three years ago, you can see that many different crises are happening around the world, so more and more people would want to seek protection in Canada. I would see that as one of the major reasons for the increase.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

What do you think could be done to make people less inclined to use the regular routes to cross our border?

[Marzieh Nezakat]

As a settlement agency that provides services, we would really support a dignified claim process for refugee claimants. We all know that when they try to cross irregularly, it is contrary to being dignified or having dignity.

If there were encouragement, or a certainty, that could be given to asylum seekers that if they crossed regularly through the official ports of entry, they would be processed faster in a dignified manner, and would be able to stay in Canada if they were found to be eligible, they would not really risk their lives going through forests and putting themselves and their families in danger, as we see today. There has to be this certainty, or reassurance, for these people that if they cross regularly through the official ports of entry, they are not going to be returned or deported. They should do what is safer for them and their families, and with a bit more dignity, of course.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Nezakat.

My next question is for Mr. Boucher.

Mr. Boucher, you mentioned health program that is not well known to stakeholders in Quebec. Can you elaborate on what our government can do to maximize the benefits in that province?

[Yannick Boucher]

It's the Interim Federal Health Program, and it's an insurance program that covers certain health services. It's kind of the equivalent of the Régie de l'assurance maladie du Québec.

There is a huge lack of awareness of this program in the Quebec health care system. Frontline workers are not accustomed to treating people with refugee status. When a situation arises and the refugee claimant wants to seek emergency care, the staff is unaware of what to do. Asylum seekers are not eligible for coverage under the Régie de l'assurance maladie du Québec. However, they are eligible for the IFHP, but they need to be registered beforehand.

What the federal government can do, really, is launch an awareness campaign and develop tools so that people understand what they need to do. It would have to be upstream, so that a number of health care professionals are on the list for this federal program. That way, asylum seekers who come to our hospitals could be handled quickly, instead of being turned away and waiting until their condition requires urgent care before they go back to the hospital.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Boucher. Thank you.

Now we will proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for five minutes.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you can please begin.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses who are here for the second hour of our meeting.

Mr. Handfield, last week I asked the deputy minister of IRCC to tell me how the asylum process worked for people coming from the United States before the Safe Third Country Agreement came into effect. She was unable to answer me. Today, the Canada Border Services Agency officials could not answer that same question, nor could the Immigration and Refugee Board officials.

First of all, do you find it normal that those senior officials are unable to answer that question?

Second, can you tell me what it was like before the agreement?

[Stéphane Handfield]

You will understand that I can't comment on what they do or do not know. However, having been an IRB Commissioner for 11 years, I can tell you what I know.

Before the Safe Third Country Agreement came into effect, people from the United States who wanted to seek asylum went to an official checkpoint, which was any of the border crossings within Canada, in British Columbia, Ontario, Manitoba or Quebec.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So they would come in through the front door and be greeted with dignity, rather than coming in through the little back window we call Roxham Road today.

[Stéphane Handfield]

They were greeted by the Canada Border Services Agency and the Canadian government, and they didn't have to sleep in trailers on the side of a highway.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Some people feel that suspending the Safe Third Country Agreement would lead to a huge spike in asylum claims. As you saw, some members were concerned about that.

First, are there any studies to prove that?

Second, I'd like to hear your opinion on it. Can you clearly explain the effect that suspending the agreement would have on the volume of asylum claims?