Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 8th, 2023

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

We are working closely with our international partners to deal with situations like this.

We work with Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Pakistan when we're dealing with people who are destined for Canada. We are usually able to receive assurances or find solutions to make sure that the people we made a commitment to who are in our program will be able to come to Canada. It can be difficult in some instances, but we will not give up on a single person that we have made this commitment to.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So you are reassuring people whose visa has expired. You are stating today that you are going to do everything within your power to reactivate their visas so that they can come here. A yes or no answer please.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Depending on the arrangement, we can reach them with a third party partner. In some instances, people never had a visa to begin with because, as they fled, they crossed in an irregular way, but we still try to receive assurances from their host country that we will be able to take them to Canada. We expect and hope that they will treat them with compassion and respect along the way.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

About two weeks ago, Minister, you were telling us that there was no categorization of applicants benefiting from Canadian programs. And yet we know full well that interpreters and people who worked at the Embassy are separate categories in terms of selection. I have a list of 65 Afghan judges who were not selected.

When I hear things like that, I ask myself whether the department is really making an effort…

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting you. You will get an opportunity in your second round. Your time is up.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you will have six minutes. You can please begin.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to the minister and officials for coming to the committee today.

On the Afghan file, I would first like to touch on the issue around the cultural interpreters. They've been excluded from the program, and it requires legal counsel representing the families to take the matter to court. I think that, just before we started this meeting, one of the cultural advisers spoke with you about the lack of action from the government.

From that perspective, why is it that cultural advisers are excluded? I know there's work in place to try to include them, but there are still extended family members who are excluded, who are being targeted and hunted down by the Taliban because of their work for Canada.

Will the minister confirm that the extended family members of the cultural advisers will be brought to safety?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Ms. Kwan, thank you for your advocacy.

Obviously, there are people who are facing very vulnerable circumstances. I want to be careful commenting on any specific cases, particularly when there may be legal proceedings involved. I don't want to breach confidentiality and I want to protect the integrity of any legal proceedings that may be at issue with a specific—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Maybe I can just interject here.

I am not asking about any specific case, but about a class of people. As you know, there is a class of people who are excluded and who are taking legal action against the government. It shouldn't have to come to that. I hope the minister realizes that.

Now that this issue is before us, the question here is, what is the minister going to do about it? Will you ensure that those family members are brought to safety, including their extended family members?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

There are just a couple of things.

We made a decision on certain categories for bringing extended family members here. We've expanded the definition of “family” across many aspects of this program to recognize cultural differences whereby people who may not be a nuclear family still consider themselves to be a family unit.

We rely on referral partners to place people into our programs in most instances, based on their contribution to either the Department of National Defence or Global Affairs Canada. We accept their referrals, but people can be referred into the program based on vulnerability, through private sponsorship or government-assisted programs.

I see that you want to take this in a different direction.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Well, actually I want to get to the crux and to the answer, and not this background, which I already have. I have only six minutes. I don't have that much time to get to you on direct questions.

My question here is this: Going forward, will the minister take action to ensure that these family members come to safety?

In addition to that, you have a limit of 40,000. With that limit, the reality is that the maximum number has been reached, which means that a lot of the family members have not been processed through this system and are not going to be able to get to safety.

I have spreadsheet upon spreadsheet of people who served Canada, and their family members, who have been left behind and ignored. They are in hiding and being hunted down by the Taliban. Some of them are in Pakistan, where their visas have expired and the police are knocking on their doors because of the expiry of their visas.

This is very real. If you don't lift the 40,000-person quota that the government has set arbitrarily, which is preventing Afghans from getting to safety, you are handing them a death sentence. That's the reality. The only reason they are in danger is that they served Canada.

My question here is twofold: Will you help to bring those families to safety—change the policy if that's what's required—and will you lift the quota?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I want to be careful not to make guarantees to people whose files I may not be fully aware of, because people often hang on to every word I say.

I am open to flexibly applying definitions of “family”, as we have for other programs throughout this process, to bring more people here. We have made a commitment to welcome at least 40,000 Afghan refugees. I am always looking for ways to continue to do more to help more vulnerable people get here.

The reality of the situation is that I know there are people who are vulnerable because of their work with Canada. We've created these programs to try to bring more of them here. I am happy to work with you and others, and members who want to speak to me, including the gentleman who spoke before this meeting began, to understand the situation and how we can improve policies to support more vulnerable people.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Minister, I appreciate that. You've offered that before. I have raised these questions before. I have submitted letters to you. I've written to you. I've sent the spreadsheets to you. I have brought them to your staff for attention. Do you know what? They all just sit there, saying that there is nothing to move forward on. There is no progress and nothing has moved.

I have another situation, in which a family member of one brother was left behind. Supposedly they applied under the wrong stream, so that was being corrected. Since then, there has been no progress. We don't know what's happened to that family. I don't even know if they have been approved under a new stream.

You can understand the anxiety that the families feel. I feel the anxiety, and that's only one-thousandth of how they feel. That's the reality of what they are faced with.

I appreciate the offer, but the reality is that there is very little follow-up. What do we do with that?

What we're waiting for and what I would like to see is a policy change and a public announcement. It shouldn't be just one-offs that we're working with.

I think the situation that my colleague, Ms. Michelle Rempel Garner, raised might be exactly the problem. There is this situation whereby some people got preferential treatment. I don't know how it is that some people got facilitation letters and others didn't.

I also had spreadsheets of people who needed to get to safety and never got one. Nobody told me that there were these facilitation letters you could get. How do you get them?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, do I have time to offer a response?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 20 seconds.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

There was a lot built into that question, obviously.

If the question is how people got facilitation letters, they were issued to people who were being brought into the program for a time-limited purpose during the evacuation of Kabul. The ones that were officially offered by the Government of Canada were limited to individuals who were supposed to be coming through part of our resettlement effort.

I'd be happy to chat further if we have an opportunity for follow-up questions in a subsequent round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now proceed to Mr. Redekopp.

Mr. Redekopp, you have five minutes. Please begin.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Minister and officials, for being here.

I want to pick up on that question about the Human Rights Tribunal case. I know you can't comment on the case specifically.

I was reading in the Star about that. The individuals are alleging that you neglected your role as Minister of Immigration, that you're letting families swing in the wind, that you have settled two of the cases—which implies there is some agreement you have with that—and that there are two more cases yet to go.

Part of what I read is that IRCC will be publishing a new public policy related to the language and cultural advisers and their families. Where is it and when will it be made available?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It will be published online very soon.

I can't speak, obviously, to the details of the settlement. It's important, before we publish anything that might have revealing personal information, that we be very careful that we don't put people at risk.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Very soon is....

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'll turn to our officials, in case they have a better sense of the precise timing.

[Christiane Fox]

I would say within the next couple of weeks. We're just finalizing the details.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Okay. Can you forward that to the committee once it's published?

[Christiane Fox]

Yes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

Also, I want to pick up on what Ms. Rempel Garner was speaking about.

I have a quick question, Minister. Do you agree that it is illegal for anyone other than officials delegated with authority by you under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to act on your behalf?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm not here to project legal conclusions about what people may have done for what reasons. I can tell you there were particular documents that were authorized from the Government of Canada. The letters to which Ms. Rempel Garner referred were not officially offered by the Government of Canada.