Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Chair, perhaps I can jump in before the officials leave.

Given that we're pressed for time on this issue and that committee members did not get through all their rounds in terms of questions—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

They are leaving now. We will proceed with the discussion on—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Can I finish, Madam Chair, on a point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Given that this motion has interrupted our proceedings, and given that Bill S-245 is going to be a bill that we will need to deal with in a timely fashion, because it has to go before the House, and committee members did not get a chance to ask their round of questions, can we have the committee's support to say that committee members can submit written questions to the officials so that we can get those responses back for our consideration as we move forward on this bill?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes. The officials always try to answer questions from the committee whenever we have requested it. If members would like to proceed that way, they can send questions to the clerk of the committee and that will be done.

Thank you once again.

Ms. Kwan, you had the floor. Please continue.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that assurance that committee members will be able to send in written questions to officials related to Bill S-245.

Getting back to Dr. Lauryn Oates, I had an opportunity to speak with her after the motion was moved, and she expressed her concerns with respect to that. With that as an aside, it may well be.... As much as I appreciate the media and their reporting, there may be times where things that are reported by the media may not necessarily be 100% accurate. There might be nuanced information that might not be captured in the article.

To that end, I think it would be important, given that Dr. Lauryn Oates was referred to in the newspaper, that she be given the opportunity to provide a written submission to us. Of course, as always, committee members can consider at a later time whether they want to invite people back if it's deemed that the information provided was deficient and further work needs to be done. If that's the case, we can all take that into consideration.

I'll leave it at that, Madam Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I have two other people on the speaking list, but before we go to Mr. Dhaliwal, I want to ask the members a question.

At the beginning, we decided to go for five minutes in camera to discuss what Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe would like to do. The committee will end at 5:38 p.m.—we started the meeting at 3:38 p.m.—and I want to know if members would like to go in camera or proceed with this discussion now.

No...? Okay. We'll proceed with this.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you are next on the speaking list.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Chair, maybe you should ask Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe if he wants to go in camera, because that is his thing. Instead of us making a decision—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

If members don't decide and there is no agreement....

Mr. Dhaliwal, you are on the speaking list, and next is Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I certainly understand your intention that it's to be decided by the members, but when Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe brought forward that he needed a few minutes in camera, that is also very important work that we are doing on that issue in particular—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I request that all members please keep silent. One member has the floor. He is speaking. With side conversations, it's difficult for me to hear what the member is saying. I request that all members please avoid side conversations.

Go ahead, Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We are doing great work. There is the motion Madam Rempel Garner brought forward. Then Mr. Redekopp brought his amendments and, of course, Madam Kwan brought her subamendments. That's very important work, and we should continue to work on that.

At the same time, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe brought in a request, which is also important. We should listen to what he has to say on that particular issue. If he wants to go in camera to have this meeting and discuss an issue that is important and near and dear to him, as well as to Quebec and Quebeckers, I would love to support him on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe is next on the speaking list.

Go ahead, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

A number of people have different opinions on a number of motions and on how to use the procedure. Personally, what I am interested in is that we talk about what happened last week, as I think what happened was serious. However, I think some committee members would prefer to have these discussions in camera. That said, I don't mind having them publicly.

I want to say something about the debate we are having right now. I personally believe that we should postpone the current debate. Basically, I am proposing a dilatory motion; if it were to pass, we could talk about the issue that I raised at the beginning of the meeting. What was said was that we would go in camera to discuss my issue, before returning to Ms. Rempel Garner's motion.

I move that we adjourn this debate, but not everyone agrees with me. I will let the members argue amongst themselves about this. Anyway, personally, I already have my mind on the motion that is on the table right now.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe has moved to adjourn the debate on the motion.

Go ahead, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, I am not moving to adjourn debate on the motion.

I am moving a dilatory motion; I want the committee to go back to the issue that I raised at the beginning of the meeting. Then we'll go back to the debate we're having now. So I'm not asking that the debate be adjourned. What I am proposing is a dilatory motion, which is very different.

That said, I see that time is running out. I don't think we'll have time to go in camera before 5:38 p.m.

As I understand it, we had until 5:38 p.m., but we needed the committee to go in camera. Once we turn the equipment off and back on, we will have only two minutes left; that is not enough time for me to make my case. I'm a little disappointed about that, but that seems to be the way committees work.

Instead of waiting until the end of the meeting to go in camera, I will now ask that the committee go in camera at the beginning of the meeting. That way, we can get some things done. I feel like I got shafted, but I learned from it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Go ahead, Madam Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I tend to agree with my colleague.

I think we all had good intentions when we came here to listen to the officials who had to give us technical information, given the complexity of Bill S‑245. I also thought that we, the committee members, had agreed to work in a rigorous manner. So I want to apologize to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. I had no idea what the Conservatives were going to do to hijack this meeting, which we had previously set up.

Had I known, I would have never said that I shared the view that it was better for us to meet in camera at the end. I would have said that we should do it at the beginning, as you mentioned, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Unfortunately, the Conservatives still find ways to disrupt our committee's work.

To go back to my colleague Ms. Rempel Garner's motion, the amendment and the subamendment, I think my colleague Ms. Kwan has raised some good points. We hear some justified hesitation here about whether or not to proceed. We want to see the people who will testify, as we know that it is important to know their point of view. I believe that the ministers will be coming to see us, in accordance with a previously passed motion.

There was one thing I was proud of, Madam Chair. Just before the break last Thursday, the government made a very important announcement about the humanitarian aid that people need in Afghanistan. We know how important that is. I was very proud to be part of that announcement as parliamentary secretary, but it was even more wonderful to hear from the Red Cross, which could be an agency that will be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Can I please request that members avoid side conversations? It becomes very difficult to hear what the member is saying.

I'm sorry, Ms. Lalonde, please go ahead.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

There is no problem. We maintain the same level of politeness in this committee.

To go back to what I was saying, this announcement was a very emotional moment for some of us because we understood the effect that this was going to have on the humanitarian side. The exemption added to the Criminal Code will allow the government to help the people who need help the most in this humanitarian crisis.

The Red Cross was present at the announcement, as were other organizations, and they all seemed to applaud this initiative. Anyway, I, for one, applaud this initiative, because it wasn't easy, but we got it done. This was a government-wide effort involving the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Public Safety, the Minister of International Development, and the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. They have all made a commitment to this.

So I'm proud to see my colleague's motion bearing fruit. I think we all agree that it is important to take concrete steps, and this is another one that the government has been able to take, in addition to everything else that we have accomplished lately.

With that, Madam Chair, I think we can move to a vote. We have a few minutes left before 5:38 p.m., so I'm prepared to support my colleague Ms. Kwan's subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Lalonde.

Next, we have Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to commend my dear friend Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for being so patient. I actually agree with him, Madam Chair. Next time when he brings his issue, it should be dealt with right away.

On the other hand, I spoke to Madam Kwan's subamendment. I would love to see it go to a vote, so that we adjourn the debate and vote on Madam Kwan's subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Seeing no other person raising their hand for the debate, we will go to the vote on the subamendment by Ms. Kwan.

(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

(Amendment as amended agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

We are at 5:38 exactly. Do I have the will of the members to adjourn the meeting?

The meeting is adjourned.