Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 26th, 2023

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

First of all, to refer to the budget, I think we can fairly say that our government has significantly increased international development funding in the work we have done and with the approach that we take through our feminist international assistance policy.

When it comes to this particular budget, no programs are being cut. At the same time, we have to be mindful that the funding we have in international development is very similar to that in Canada. We had to increase our support during COVID for Canadians, and we had to step up internationally as well for all of the programs in place.

I also want to assure you that the work in international development is not over, and our commitment to increasing funding for international development remains.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Currently, what percentage of GDP does the international development budget represent?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I don't have the exact percentage based on GDP. We can get you the numbers.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Knowing this would be essential for you, Minister. When it comes to international development, the UN asks countries like Canada to contribute 0.7% of their GDP. The last time we checked, this percentage was 0.27%. This is less than what Stephen Harper was providing, which was 0.33%. The average for OECD countries is 0.42%.

To say that the budget for international development is sufficient implies that NGOs are complaining without cause. I don't think that's the case. Rather, I think people in the field are aware of what is going on.

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. The time is up for Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you have six minutes. Please begin.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thanks very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the minister and the officials for being at the committee.

I want to get back to some pertinent points related to the evacuation effort and, more particularly, the minister's former chief of staff's engagement in that process.

Senator McPhedran was before this committee. She answered very clearly this question: “Was Minister Sajjan aware you were sending out these facilitation letters?” The answer was yes.

Minister, can you advise the committee on that? Were you aware of these facilitation letters, yes or no?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I was not aware that Senator McPhedran was disseminating facilitation letters.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

She later on was asked a question about written correspondence related to this, and she indicated very clearly in response to that question that “he was copied on the correspondence back and forth about what we were doing.” She was referring to you when she said “he”. Are you advising the committee that you have not seen these emails?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

At that time, we were getting a lot of emails. I wasn't reading my emails. I do get a lot of emails and am probably cc'd on them, but as I told members of this committee, I was focused on the operational aspect of Afghanistan at that time.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That's fair enough. At the time, you were busy. However, it's been some time since that fateful day. Can you advise us whether you have gone back to look at any of your emails?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

No, I have not.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

You have not.

Assuming those emails are still sitting in your inbox, would you be able to table all correspondence you had and that was copied to you from Senator McPhedran related to this matter?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm sure if there are any emails, she would have already provided them, I'm assuming.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Well, she has submitted documentation to the clerk, which has been submitted to translation, so committee members have not yet received them. I think it would be really important for committee members to also receive them from you. Would you be able to table that correspondence to us for verification? I think it's important to know the truth and to see what really went down.

Would the minister be able to table that correspondence exchange?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm happy to take a look to see if there are any corresponding emails that are relevant to this, but I can assure you at this time that I get cc'd on emails quite regularly on things, and was even cc'd at that time and afterwards. As you also know, I moved portfolios—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, thank you.

More specifically, I want to get the emails related to this particular issue because I think the heart of the matter is going to be important. Throughout her testimony, the senator indicated that a variety of ministers were aware and were copied on the emails and that at no point was she advised to cease and desist. If, in fact, that is true, I think that's important information for the committee to receive.

The other issue that was indicated by the senator was that there was a small group of people in an email exchange initiated by the then minister Monsef, and your former chief of staff George Young was part of that communication. Minister, could you advise us whether you were copied on that exchange initiated by Minister Monsef?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

As I said, I'm not aware of those emails. I'm sure that if those emails are there, they will be forwarded to you by Senator McPhedran and others.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

May I also ask, then, for you to review the email exchanges in your personal account—because we were advised that this was sent to the minister's personal account—and bring forward correspondence related to this email initiated by Minister Monsef and the communication back and forth related to it?

The senator also indicated that she had copied ministers on a rolling list of names of Afghans who received the revised facilitation letter, so I'll ask this question as well, Minister: Did you, at any point in time, pick up emails with the names of Afghans who, it was indicated, would be receiving or had received these facilitation letters?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I do not know the names.

For context purposes, we were getting contacted, obviously, by many people—anybody who knew you or had contact. All those names.... People were either given a number they could call, or the names were fed through the team into the multidisciplinary—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Minister. Yes, I am aware of the process.

What I'm interested in, though, are emails pertaining to the rolling list of names of Afghans the senator might have copied you on. If you can, provide those to the committee as well.

Have you, at any point in time, had discussions with your former chief of staff related to the evacuation effort being made by the senator?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm Sorry. Can you repeat that question?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Have you, at any point in time, had discussions with your former chief of staff, George Young, related to the senator's effort to try to get Afghans to safety?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

What time period are you talking about? Do you mean now or during the evacuation period?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

This would have been during the earlier days. It appears that it would have been early in August, right around the time when these facilitation letters were issued. It was in and around that period.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Just like for others who were trying to contact me, this was forwarded either to my chief of staff or directly to the department where they can contact and send that information directly.

What I didn't want to do is get bogged down in the whole situation, as I stated. We were extremely busy with just managing security because of the intelligence—