Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 26th, 2023

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

No, that is not the case.

Madam Chair, if only the member knew of the personal impact this has had on us and of the connection we have. Everything for us had even greater meaning with the work we were doing, even to this day. Our work did not finish when the final plane left.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We were trying to help more people come out. We knew many families could not get out, and we were still working. I know personally how we helped get families out of Pakistan, and we continue to have discussions with our allies—

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Minister, this is my time.

If you were aware that your current chief of staff, for example, told a random member of Parliament, such as me, that I could issue paperwork on my own—let's say for the crisis in Sudan that's happening right now—what action would you take?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I can't answer hypothetical questions here.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Let's ask another question then.

In hindsight now, from reading the news and whatever else, you know what happened and you know the senator's involvement. Do you think the senator should be censured in any way? There are ethics codes we have. Are there any actions that you think should be taken with regard to the senator?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I don't know where the investigation is for it. I was told it was continuing, and I'm not going to comment on where this is going. What I can tell you is that, yes, it does need to be looked into in terms of whether facilitation letters were inappropriately given out.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

It's something that, as a parliamentarian, I need to be briefed on, or I need to know that this is not something I should be doing. Is that what you're saying?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm sorry. I'm not sure—

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

If this was done by me, would that be wrong to do?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

It would be wrong for anybody to do it if they didn't have the authority to issue any type of document they weren't entitled to give out.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

If, in fact—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Redekopp. Your time is up.

We will end this panel with Mr. Ali for five minutes.

Mr. Ali, please begin.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the minister and the officials for being here today to share their knowledge and experience with us.

Minister, I know that so many questions were asked of you and that you were not given the opportunity to respond to them, especially with the facilitation letter. Would you like to add your response? You can have an opportunity.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you.

With regard to the situation when we were setting up security at the Kabul airport, as I was trying to say—because we were literally monitoring, hour by hour, the different changes—there were obstacles put into place. As people were trying to get to the airport, there were checkpoints and roadblocks being conducted by the Taliban, and that became a significant challenge. We knew that some of the people we needed to get out could not get through. This is when I was advised that there was what's called a “facilitation letter”, which could be issued so they could get through those checkpoints. I was also advised that there was another process that took place when they were able to get to the airport, and apparently there was another authorization given before somebody could do that. I'm sure my colleagues or officials who have come here before have explained that.

That's when I became aware of it, and it was actually only last week that I got a little more thorough understanding of how this is done because of a previous crisis. The work that was done on the ground.... Even to this day, I'm very thankful we did not lose any troops because of the amount of risk that was taken by our folks to get the Afghans out. More importantly, we were bringing the Afghans we got out straight to Canada and not leaving them in a third country.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for your service.

Minister, we committed to resettling at least 40,000 Afghans, and we have welcomed more than 30,000 already. In fact, I have had the privilege of meeting several airplanes bringing Afghan newcomers to Canada. Given your military experience with three tours in Afghanistan, can you tell us which group of Afghans we should be most concerned about resettling in Canada?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

With regard to resettling in Canada, what I can tell you is that the message.... Regarding some of the folks who are in Afghanistan now, the fear they're facing is what still, obviously, concerns me the most. I wish there was a more expeditious way to get out more of the people we're still trying to get out. I'm thankful that some of them found other ways to get out and that we found ways to bring them over here.

The last message I want to leave is that we're not going to stop, even now, trying to support the Afghans and bringing them back here. I'm thankful for some of our allies, who I've met with personally. I think of when we met with the Prime Minister of Pakistan to make sure we could expedite the exit permits for some of the Afghans who haven't made it across the border.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Minister, I've heard that some UN organizations are considering making the continuation of their operations in Afghanistan conditional upon permitting women to be employed by them. As Bill C-41 allows the safety minister to impose conditions on the authorization to provide humanitarian assistance, is Canada considering making women staffing a condition of Canadian assistance? What are the pros and cons of requiring such a condition?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We are going through the pros and cons with our trusted allies. When I was most recently in the region, I spoke with our special representative and the special representatives of other countries to get other nations' perspectives as well. Personally, I think we need to put some conditions on this if we're going to get the Taliban decrees removed. My message has been, from the beginning.... Even when we served in Afghanistan, sometimes it felt like we were caring more about their people. All we want to do in Canada is help the Afghan people and make sure that everyone is helped, especially women and girls.

We call on the Taliban regime to remove those decrees to make sure that everyone is helped and, at the same time, make sure that girls get the education that they deserve. The country will actually be better off and more successful if they allow this, and this has been shown in many other countries. However, I'm happy to say that portions of Afghanistan are not following the decree, and I commend those people for doing so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You time is up, Mr. Ali.

This panel has come to an end. On behalf of all of the members of this committee, I want to thank the minister for taking this time out of his busy schedule and for all the service he's doing for Canadians.

We will suspend the meeting for a few minutes so the minister can leave and we can have the other officials join the panel.

With that, the meeting is suspended. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call the meeting back to order.

In this panel, we are joined by the officials. Thank you to everyone for joining us in this meeting.

We will go straight into our rounds of questioning, and we will begin with Ms. Rempel Garner for six minutes.

Ms. Rempel Garner, please begin.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

I will start with a general question about some of the topics we're talking about.

Do any of you at the table have any understanding or knowledge of what was happening with Senator McPhedran and the facilitation letters? Have you been privy to any internal investigation?

[Marie-Louise Hannan, Director General, South Asia Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

We can all speak individually for ourselves. I have not.

[Christopher Gibbins, Executive Director, Afghanistan-Pakistan, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

No.

[Nancy Segal, Deputy Director, Crime and Terrorism Policy Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

No.