Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 5th, 2023

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't want to delay this any longer, but I just want to put some things on the record because I did hear my colleague, Mr. Redekopp, state that we were trying to vote against this motion. That is not what we're trying to do. We're trying to make sure that we do not delay Bill S-245, which had many people's lives in jeopardy. I'm glad that we were able to get to that point.

I also think that it's important to strike a balance on what we're doing right now. We're deeply concerned about the students, and that's really important to note. This is really important legislation, and we've received hundreds of letters from people who are looking for it to be passed. I think we can go clause by clause, considering that it's typically a two-hour process. This is something that the Conservatives have dragged out for over 30 hours, and they've showing no signs of stopping this.

We're here right now, in this moment, because of the 30-hour process that we just finished: going through the clause-by-clause on Bill S-245.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kayabaga.

I'll just request that all members avoid side conversations and talking across the aisle. Our member has the floor and is speaking. Let her finish.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I want to point out some major flaws in the motion. There's a part where he wants to drag these vulnerable students in to testify and essentially prove to the committee that they are innocent. It's, honestly, despicable, Madam Chair, because they've already gone through a lot, and I don't think they need to go through that any further. I think one of my colleagues just mentioned that it's unethical for us to even mention their names.

We are seized with this issue. We want to study the cause, and we want to find a solution and not waste any more time questioning whether the students were complicit or not, which is what the Conservatives are essentially trying to do. I hope we do not do that.

I want to clarify. This motion that my colleague, Mr. Redekopp, has brought insinuates that we can bring the students in, and I think we shouldn't do that.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

Are we debating my motion now? I'm happy to, if that's what we're doing. Are we debating my motion? It's just to clarify.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

No, it's Ms. Kwan's motion that we are debating.

Ms. Kayabaga.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I'd like to finish, Madam Chair, by saying that we support Ms. Kwan's motion. I hope that we can remain within the lines of ethics and we do not drag this out for another 30 hours. As we all know, people's lives are on the line right now.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I understand that the Liberals are angry because the Conservatives took a lot of time over Bill S‑245, and decided this evening to speak for an extremely long time without saying anything at all. Everyone knows that we all agree on the motion.

I'd like to tell my Liberal friends that if the Bloc Québécois wanted to, it could carry on at length and read from books. If we wanted to play that game, it would not be amusing. I'm prepared to do my share of work and to get going immediately. People should stop wasting the committee's time. Just because someone has spoken for far too long doesn't mean you have to do likewise. If you criticize someone for something, then you shouldn't do what they did.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

The floor is yours, Ms. Kayabaga.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Madam Chair, my colleague shouldn't use expressions like “wasting time”, because that's not what's happening right now.

We were all elected and we have work to do. And that's what we're doing.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Seeing no further debate, we will go for a vote on Ms. Kwan's motion.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

Mr. Kmiec.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

As I told you, Madam Chair, this motion has been on notice since March 27. I move:

That, the committee report the following to the House: that Russian opposition leader Vladimir Kara-Murza is facing political persecution in the Russian Federation including a show trial with high treason charges following his public condemnation of the unjustified and illegal war by Russia against Ukraine. That Vladimir Kara-Murza has survived two assassination attempts by poisoning including in 2015 and 2017, and that he is currently imprisoned in Russia and his health is failing. That Vladimir Kara-Murza is the recipient of the Vaclav Havel Human Rights Prize awarded by the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, and is a Senior Fellow to the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights. Therefore, the committee calls on the Government of Canada to grant honorary Canadian citizenship to Vladimir Kara-Murza and demand that the Russian Federation set him free.

Madam Chair, that is the motion that has been on notice.

I'll briefly explain why this is still important today. He is still in jail. He's 41 years old. He is the same age I am. He has three kids. His wife, Evgenia Kara-Murza, has been here before, and she has spoken to members of Parliament.

We are trying to reach an agreement with all parties on a UC motion, and I understand we're still having trouble getting there. He has been under arrest since April 2022. Again, he has suffered unjust treatment by his captors. As one of the official opposition leaders in Russia, he, with Alexei Navalny, has basically led the way in defending the democratic rights of people who oppose Vladimir Putin's regime and the Kremlin.

His health has declined. He's lost about 40 pounds since his trial began. He did not have 40 pounds to lose, by the way; that would be like me losing 40 pounds. He's had two poisoning attempts, both suspected to have been directed personally by President Vladimir Putin, from his past two visits to Russia in 2015 and 2017. He has already been diagnosed with polyneuropathy. He's lost feeling in both feet and one arm. Even under Russian law, such a diagnosis should lead to his release, and it's very likely that he will die soon unless he is released.

Unfortunately, yet predictably, Russian courts found him guilty and sentenced him to 25 years in jail. I will also note for the record that there is a statement by the chairs of the foreign affairs committees of various European states in continental Europe that condemns the sentencing of Vladimir Kara-Murza. As all political prisoners know—I have met a few in my time here on Parliament Hill—if we do not promote their names, if we don't have them front and centre in the public, they will be forgotten, and regimes like the one Vladimir Putin leads will murder their opponents in jail. They have shown before that they have done so. Boris Nemtsov was murdered on a bridge right outside the Kremlin, in the evening, when he was shot to death in a very brazen murder.

For Russian opposition leaders, Russians who support democracy and the Russian Federation, it is a tough life being a member of the opposition there. I count my blessings that I am here in Canada. It is very difficult for them. Granting him honorary citizenship would be the least we could do to support someone who has basically given his life for the democratic movement, human rights, free speech and liberty. The only thing he said that wound up putting him before the Russian courts was that the invasion of Ukraine was illegal and unjust and that he continues to oppose Vladimir Putin's regime, the kleptocrats in the Kremlin.

I hope that we can pass this and bring it to the House, so that the House can pass it as well, and that eventually the Senate may do something similar. There are six honorary citizenships that have been granted, I believe, in the past 30 or 40 years. This would be our seventh. I can't think of anyone more worthy than Vladimir Kara-Murza.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Next is Mrs. Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I want to say thank you to my colleague for bringing this forward. There are so many areas where we would agree on the principles of his motion.

I don't want to upset anyone on this committee, but I think it's important that we also set the stage for this motion. When you think about ordinary Canadian citizenship, it is not at the discretion of the minister of IRCC. I think it's important that this be on the record. It is purely symbolic. It is an act on the part of the House. As my honourable colleague mentioned, since 2001, there have been six citizenships. One of them, unfortunately, was revoked. It was done through a unanimous consent motion that was proposed in the House for a joint resolution to be passed to grant that honour.

I think it's important that everybody understand that the recipients of that honour do not receive any of the rights held by Canadian citizens, such as the ability to receive or hold a Canadian passport, nor are they permitted to exercise any duties associated with Canadian citizenship. I think it's important that we realize, and that we put on record, what we are proposing to do in essence.

My honourable colleague did mention how horrible it is for this wonderful person who, through his perspective, is actually challenging, contesting and opposing what the current regime of Vladimir Putin is doing. I think we can agree on all those aspects of what we want to do here. I hope that I'll have the support of my colleagues, because I think the principle is right, but we need to ensure that the language is actually reflective of past practices, what exactly it means and what we would be saying.

For that reason, Madam Chair, I would like to propose an amendment to my colleague's motion. If I can read it in both official languages here, I will do so.

Madam Chair, maybe it would be easier if I read the motion the way I would like to see it with the amendment going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Just one second, Mrs. Lalonde.

Are you proposing an amendment to the motion moved by Mr. Kmiec?

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Yes. I move the following amendment.

I would like to delete the words “That, the committee report the following to the House” and replace them with “That the committee issue a press release stating”, and also delete the words “the Government of Canada” and replace them with “Parliament”.

Madam Chair, could I read it as it would be amended, to help our translators?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

The amended motion in English would read:

That the committee issue a press release stating that Russian opposition leader Vladimir Kara-Murza is facing political persecution in the Russian Federation including a show trial with high treason charges following his public condemnation of the unjustified and illegal war by Russia against Ukraine; that Vladimir Kara-Murza has survived two assassination attempts by poisoning including in 2015 and 2017, and that he is currently imprisoned in Russia and his health is failing; that Vladimir Kara-Murza is the recipient of the Vaclav Havel Human Rights Prize awarded by the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, and is a Senior Fellow to the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights; therefore the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration calls on the Parliament of Canada to grant honorary Canadian citizenship to Vladimir Kara-Murza and demand that the Russian Federation set him free.

I could repeat that in French if you would like.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mrs. Lalonde has proposed an amendment, so we have an amendment on the floor.

Mr. Kmiec, go ahead.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I am fine with the second part, where “the Government of Canada” is stricken out and replaced with “Parliament”, but I'm not fine with a news release. I can put out a news release. I can tell you that Vladimir Putin doesn't care about my news release.

All of us here at this table are sanctioned by the Russian Federation. All of us are banned from entering that country, which I wear as a happy badge of honour. When an initial list came out, I was not on it for some reason—a bunch of us were not on it—and it was very difficult for me to deal with my family because they thought that was impugning my character somehow not to be sanctioned by the regime.

The first part is not acceptable. We've done this before. The committee has put out a news release, and it goes nowhere. There was one on minority Christians being persecuted overseas, and there were two other ones earlier in the year. Those were quickly forgotten. The thing that is not forgotten and that other regimes pay attention to is when Parliament and committees of this Parliament act and do things. Through acts of Parliament, we've recognized genocides. We act. We pass unanimous consent motions. Those are things people pay attention to.

To me, although they are non-binding, that's still the way we've done it before when we've named others to become honorary citizens. This is a way, through Parliament, to do so.

I don't support the amendment, even though half of it is okay with me. A news release is not enough. I would like to see this reported back to the House. It needs to be as is. A news release is simply not enough. It won't help. The Russian Federation won't care. They won't pay attention to what we do here. A news release just won't do it.

Other Parliaments are acting as well. Time is of the essence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Kmiec.

We have an amendment on the floor.

Yes, Mrs. Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I'm not sure when, but I just want to clarify. Because of the French and what I said, I want to make sure it was very clear...not on the amendment but on the suggestions of the revocation of the citizenship of one of the individuals. We can talk about Mr. Kmiec's motion or the amendment, but at one point, Madam Chair, I just want to make sure it's on record that I want to share some thoughts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have an amendment on the floor, proposed by Mrs. Lalonde.

Do you accept that as a friendly amendment from Mr. Kmiec?

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

No.