Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 1st, 2022

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

[Shamira Madhany]

The issue you're talking about in terms of express entry.... Express entry is for those who are highly skilled, and it means that the points that students would get are for what's called NOC A, B and C. It depends on the courses of study that the students are taking. If they're not taking courses in one of those higher classifications, this means they will not get the additional points for the work experience they have here.

That's why it becomes really important, in terms of work-integrated learning for job opportunities, that we give them longer time periods, more than 20 hours, to be able to recognize the experience, because if you're working at Subway, 20 hours isn't going to give you the work experience and extra points for express entry. That's what the issue is.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Just very quickly, because I think I'm out of time, Mr. Dornier, what are your thoughts on lifting the 20-hour limit?

[François Dornier]

I don't want to get into too much detail, because I don't know enough about the process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but time is up.

With that, our round of questioning comes to an end.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the witnesses for appearing before the committee. If there is something you would like to bring to the notice of the members of this committee and you were not able to bring it up today, you can always send a written submission to the clerk of the committee and it will be distributed to all the members as we come to the stage of drafting the report and the recommendations.

With that, thank you once again to all the witnesses. You can leave this meeting, and we will then proceed to the next part. Thank you once again for your input.

The witnesses have left. As agreed by all the members of the committee, we will come back to our debate. When we adjourned the debate, the amendment by Ms. Lalonde was on the floor. We will debate the amendment and vote on that, and then we'll go back to the main motion.

We have the amendment from Ms. Lalonde on the floor.

Ms. Kwan, go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Before we get into the full debate, there are several things I'd like to comment on about the motion.

I think in general we're all on the same page with [Technical difficulty—Editor] and given the urgency of the situation, it makes sense that we address this now.

I've also tabled a motion on this point. Most significantly, there are two aspects where it differs from—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kwan.

Right now we are debating the amendment that was brought in by Ms. Lalonde.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, I understand, and I'm getting to that, Madam Chair.

I'm not about to move my motion, but I'll say that, on the issue around this, with Ms. Lalonde's amendment and related to the main motion itself, there are other components that I think would be essential to incorporate into the motion as well.

One is that it would be absolutely critical, in my view, that the motion incorporate language around visa-free travel for Ukrainians. This is something [Technical difficulty—Editor] to make sure it is in place, and that's something I would like to put forward at the appropriate time. Also, I propose to incorporate into the motion language that says “institute visa-free access to Canada for the Ukrainians impacted by the conflict with Russia by rapidly obtaining an electronic travel authorization.” I think it would make sense to put that forward.

I also want to note, Madam Chair, that the language around rapidly obtaining an electronic travel authorization is the suggestion from Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, which I think adds to the call for visa-free travel for Ukraine.

The other piece that I'm very concerned about is this. We need to make sure, as the government works expeditiously to address this issue, that there are additional, increased staffing resources put in place, and immigration levels as required to address the crisis. If we don't, we are going to create a problem.

What we have seen with the Afghanistan crisis.... The government basically just robbed Peter to pay Paul to deal with the Afghanistan crisis and, as a result, the backlog in the immigration system across all streams only got worse, along with the impact of COVID. We can't let that happen again. In my view, it would be absolutely essential that we amend the motion by adding “increase staffing resources so that the existing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kwan.

You cannot move any amendment right now. Right now we are debating the amendment that was proposed by Ms. Lalonde. Until we vote on that, you cannot move any amendment. You can talk about it, but you cannot move any amendment right now. First we have to vote on the amendment proposed by Ms. Lalonde. I wanted to clarify that.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I understood that, and I wasn't moving the amendment. At the appropriate time, I will, but I'm suggesting, as we contemplate this motion, that what we need to do is think about all the elements within it, and that's what I am commenting on.

Related to the motion, along with Ms. Lalonde's amendment, is this piece, and that is to ensure that language is incorporated into the motion to increase staffing resources and adjust immigration levels as required so that the existing backlog for all immigration streams is not further impacted by this humanitarian crisis. That's my intention with respect to that.

On the amendment from Ms. Lalonde, I'm okay with that amendment. I don't think it takes away from the main motion; however, at the appropriate time, Madam Chair, I would like to move my other two amendments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

I have a speaking list. Next is Mr. El-Khoury, and after that we will go to Mr. Ali.

Please proceed, Mr. El-Khoury.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Madam Chair, Mr. Hallan moved a motion and Ms. Lalonde put forward some amendments. That's clear to everyone. We are ready to debate Ms. Lalonde's proposal. Otherwise, we would have to call for a vote. After that, we will move to the next phase.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Mr. Ali, please go ahead.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. El-Khoury said the same thing that I wanted to bring to your attention, because we have a motion in front of us, and then we need to move on.

I would like to make one comment.

We had a similar situation in Syria and Afghanistan. Why wouldn't we have visa-free entry for people from there, who were in a similar situation? Why are we having special treatment here?

We're here studying discrimination against students from various countries and refusal rates. We are suggesting something different for one country as compared to a similar situation we had in Syria and Afghanistan, where we didn't have the same suggestion for them.

I just wanted to bring that to your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Ali.

We have Mr. Hallan, and then Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I'll echo what Mr. El-Khoury said.

We have a motion in front of us, and we have an amendment. Let's get on with the vote, so we can continue, and then we can bring in Ms. Kwan's amendments after that, just to respect the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Hallan.

Mr. Dhaliwal, go ahead.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Chair, [Technical difficulty—Editor] support Mr. Hallan's motion.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, I would imagine that my friend is going to put his headset on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Dhaliwal, we were not able to hear properly. Can you please repeat what you said?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Chair, I support what Mr. Ali and Mr. Hallan have said.

I will also support one part of Ms. Kwan's amendment, where she says we have to put more resources in, and we have to adjust the number of people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

Seeing no further hands raised for debate, we will now proceed to the vote on the amendment proposed by Mrs. Lalonde.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We now have the motion proposed by Mr. Hallan as amended.

I will read the motion:

That the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration report the following to the House: We (a) condemn the unwarranted and unprovoked attack on Ukraine, which was ordered by Russian President Vladimir Putin, a clear violation of international law, and (b) call on the Government of Canada to support Ukrainians and people residing in Ukraine who are impacted by this conflict and ensure that it is prepared to process immigration applications on an urgent basis without compromising needs in other areas.

Mr. Genuis, please go ahead.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I had submitted in advance to the clerk another amendment, which conveniently aligns with one of Ms. Kwan's proposals. It might be more convenient for us to deal with each of her proposals individually.

I will move the amendment that I have submitted in advance. It would add, “and (c) implement visa-free travel from Ukraine to Canada.”

This obviously doesn't preclude other amendments afterwards. I would like to go ahead and move that amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Could you please repeat your amendment?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes.

First of all, it involves striking the earlier “and” before (b), and then adding to the end “and (c) implement visa-free travel from Ukraine to Canada”.

That's largely self-explanatory, but to respond to the question that was asked about this not having been done in other cases, we have to acknowledge that it has long been the policy of the government to have visa-free travel for some countries and not for others. I don't think we would want to say that the government, in the interests of fairness, has to either have visa requirements for every country or visa requirements for no country. These determinations are made on the basis of a variety of considerations around the likely numbers that would come and the impacts that would have in terms of the speed at which it would occur, capacity and so forth.

However, in light of the current situation in Ukraine, and the fact that many comparable partner countries already have visa-free travel..... Ukrainians have the option, for instance, of travelling to many countries in Europe. Many may have family members in Canada and, therefore, may want to come to Canada as well. Visa-free travel makes sense in this particular context.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't consider it in another context, and it doesn't mean that we maybe shouldn't have done it in other contexts, but I think it makes sense under the circumstances in this particular case. That's why I'm moving this amendment.

Thank you.