Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

A couple of cases happened in my riding that I don't understand, Madam Fox, where a family came to ask for political refugee status or asylum, and their kids were three or four years old. The process takes three to four years to get the final decision, and as you well know, some of the lawyers here profit from cases and start to go for appeals, and delay and delay while the kids learn the language, go to school, adapt to our Canadian life. Then they have a removal order and have to leave with the kids. How can you explain that?

[Christiane Fox]

What I would say is that I think we do need to think about our process in Canada and look at our asylum system from all the pieces that are involved—and that's not just IRCC, just the IRB, or CBSA, but everybody—and how we can have a fair and efficient decision-making system. I do think asylum seekers who come to Canada seeking asylum should get a fair and fast decision, and if that is delayed over a long period of time and there's not efficiency in the system, then, absolutely, it can lead to people who have been here for three years or four years, and who may have had a child here, and it increases the complexity....

Our team at IRCC is looking at asylum reform, and what I was talking about is that we have a situation now where we have an influx of people coming to the country and I think we need to take a very human approach to providing them with supports. At the same time, we have to think about what reforms to the system are required to have a more efficient system for decision-making.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Madam Kwan for up to six minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

Could the deputy minister provide to the committee, since the Syrian refugee initiative—under which Canada housed asylum seekers when they arrived here, or government-assisted refugees, in hotels—a breakdown the cost of the hotels by the respective stream, GAR and inland asylum seekers; by the year; by the province; and by how many rooms were being provided with that cost, and the services provided?

If we could get that information for the committee, that would be very helpful.

[Christiane Fox]

Just to clarify, do you want it for asylum seekers and government-assisted refugees.

Okay. Thank you. Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

With regard to the situation in Toronto, I was just there recently and went to visit an NGO that is providing shelter to asylum seekers. The vast majority of the spaces there are taken, in fact, by women who are escaping persecution of one form or another. The government, over the course of the summer, made an announcement that it would actually provide $97 million to Toronto. Has that money flowed?

[Christiane Fox]

There are two things.

First, the way the interim housing assistance program works is that the money is earmarked for the City of Toronto. It's based on a repayment process that would be done at the end of a fiscal year. However, given the pressures, what we've done now is.... We have an ability to do interim payments for some of the municipalities that may need a bit of a financial boost and not wait until the end of the year. In my conversations with the city manager, he—just being aware, I think, that there was a commitment of $97 million at the time of our conversation around this, which was probably around September—indicated to me that they probably would not necessarily require an interim payment. However, we are going to meet with all the municipalities that have pressures around interim housing to see if we can give a bit of an increase payment—let's say in December—prior to the full payment that would be done at the end of March 2024.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Would you say that the increase payment is not to go above and beyond the $97 million? It's within the $97-million envelope, right?

[Christiane Fox]

The $97 million is dedicated to Toronto, but we have $212 million as an envelope. For instance, I've been having conversations with Ottawa, which will also be requiring a payment under the IHAP program.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Right, so that would be applying to other municipalities.

[Christiane Fox]

The $212 million would apply to other municipalities, minus the $97 million for Toronto.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

In talking with NGOs on the ground, we know that they are desperate for additional resources. How could they get access to resources to house people?

They are NGOs that could actually allow for more beds to be made available if they had the financial resources to do so. However, they can't access that money.

My question is this: How can they access the money?

[Christiane Fox]

I would say two things.

I have been working with some of the Black leaders who have stepped up in the GTA. I met with some of them in person to talk a little bit about how we can support.... One of the things that we have done is this: With regard to people who are either in a municipal shelter or in a church, for instance, every single weekend—every day, frankly—we have a plan of moving people who are asylum claimants into our hotels so that we can be a direct support. The city is aware that we are doing that. I think it is the city that has to designate what is a shelter and what is not to make sure that the right conditions are in place to protect people. We are working directly with community leaders in the course of our decision-making and our actions.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

One of the issues, of course, is that we're doing shelters. As you indicated, doing shelters and moving people from one temporary space to another temporary space is not the long-term solution.

I just want to put in a plug for the following for the officials to consider: Previously, under the Syrian refugee initiative, we actually studied the issue afterwards. Experts said to the government that what it should really be doing is building permanent spaces so that it's not constantly paying money to hotels where it cannot keep the asset for future uses. We know that there's a global crisis going on. We know that this is going to be utilized. Even if it isn't, we can use it for domestic individuals. Is that under consideration by the government?

[Christiane Fox]

Yes, it is.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I hope it materializes quickly because it's a smart way to spend the money.

I want to actually turn to, for a minute, the Rainbow Railroad program, which the government actually made a special announcement about, for particularly the LGBTQ2S+ community. I have somebody in my constituency who came to Canada under that program, which is great. However, because they identified as being from the LGBTQ2S+ community, their family members are being persecuted and are being harassed and threatened. They are desperate to find a way to bring to safety their mother, sister and brother who are faced with severe threats.

What options are available to a family like that?

[Christiane Fox]

As you noted, we've been working very closely with Dr. Kimahli Powell on Rainbow Railroad, and they are now a partner in our resettlement efforts. I think that's a first for the country and something that we're very proud of.

In the context of persecution, whether individual or family, I think we work with them in terms of being a referral partner to help us navigate that. That also includes, in addition, human rights defenders.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

But for family members?

[Christiane Fox]

We would work with Rainbow Railroad to determine their list of at-risk individuals. Right now I would say the focus is on the individuals themselves who are identified as LGBTQ2+.

But this is a settlement question not an asylum one. I'll have to go back to the team and say, “What are the parameters of the agreement with Rainbow Railroad? How do we deal with the context of family?”

I would say that the priority is really for those who are under direct persecution.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Madam Kwan and Madam Fox.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Can I ask whether I can pass this information on to the officials to look into? The family members are under threat because their son, in this instance, is a member of the LGBTQ2+ community. They are being actively persecuted and are under threat.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Madam Kwan.

For the last short question and short answer, please, I will give the floor to Mr. McLean.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Could we get a quick answer to Ms. Kwan's question by the deputy minister, please?

[Christiane Fox]

I can absolutely take that on and take a look at the case. I cannot make guarantees that we will bring the families over, but I will definitely look into the case.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Mr. McLean