Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2023

[Fernando Borja Torres]

It's really important for us that the inspectors be on site because we go to great lengths to make employers understand their obligations and workers to know their rights. So we want to show the government that our members are doing things right. We do a lot of work with RATTMAQ and UPA to ensure that employers and workers know their obligations and rights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Kmiec.

We'll go to Mr. Ali for five minutes, and then to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for their time and for appearing before the committee to give their input on these very important topics.

My question is for Mr. Chambers.

Can you expand on the impact of labour shortages on the agricultural industry, please?

[Mark Chambers]

Yes. Some work that was done and put together by the Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council confirms that ag lost an estimated $3.5 billion in sales in 2022 because they didn't have enough workers. In that survey, they also found that the ag sector has an above average vacancy rate of 7.5%, with two in five employers saying that they couldn't find the workers they needed.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chambers.

The 2024-26 immigration levels plan tabled by the minister showed his intention to bring economic migrants to Canada, with the goal of having 60% of new permanent residents as part of the economic class by 2026. Pilot programs such as the agri-food pilot, which was extended until May 2025, as well as the Atlantic immigration program and the rural and northern immigration pilot, to name a few, are key components of the economic class.

In your opinion, have these pilot programs, especially the agri-food pilot, been helpful to transition temporary foreign workers?

[Mark Chambers]

Yes. In certain areas, they're helpful in transitioning permanent residents. Remember that our business, Sunterra Farms, is in Alberta, and we've had very good success with the provincial nomination program and the rural renewal program to transition folks through permanent residency.

The agri-food immigration pilot is becoming more helpful, because they're focusing more on in-demand jobs versus education. The in-demand jobs definitely need filling, and a lot of them are in rural Canada. For us, immigration has always been a cornerstone of our business when we bring in temporary foreign workers to transition that way. If we can get them working in rural Alberta and then becoming a permanent resident, there is a much higher probability that they'll stay in rural Alberta.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

What measures would you like to see the government implement to assist the agricultural industry's ability to recruit?

[Mark Chambers]

Do you mean the ability to recruit foreign workers or Canadians?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I'm asking about foreign workers.

[Mark Chambers]

I think our ability to recruit foreign workers is there today as a business. That's fine. There are some nuances with the program to ensure that it's streamlined.

There are some positives coming out of the program, such as a recognized employer model, which is going to help streamline recruiting temporary foreign workers for sure, but the biggest thing that would be helpful would be the IRCC component, the actual process and the work permits. That is a big stumbling block today and the biggest bottleneck of all.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

You have a minute and a quarter.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

This question is for any of the witnesses.

In 2022, 77% of the work permits issued by IRCC were open, while only 23% were employer-specific or closed work permits. Certain employers have expressed that employer-specific worker permits have a specific purpose. For instance, employers in need of workers with high-demand skills who recruit temporary foreign workers fear that without employer-specific permits, they may lose the employees they have recruited and desperately need.

Do you believe that employer-specific work permits, coupled with increased measures to protect temporary foreign workers, are necessary in certain circumstances?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Can anyone give a 20-second answer?

Please go ahead, Mr. Borja.

[Fernando Borja Torres]

I believe, yes, for our sector. In Quebec, our farmers need to recruit a certain number of workers for specific periods for specific work that has to be done at the farm. If there is no protection.... I think one of the main reasons the program has been successful for the employers is that they know that the number of workers they need for seeding or planting is there. If there's no guarantee that workers are going to be there in the number that they need, perhaps there will be a change in agriculture, because if an employer has to invest money to prepare the food but there is no guarantee that he's going to have the people, maybe he's going to reduce the amount of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Borja.

We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.

Please, go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good and sincere employers who really spend a lot of money to hire temporary foreign workers are afraid that eliminating the closed work permit program will encourage workers to go and work elsewhere, which would then force them to shut down.

How do you respond to those employers?

[Michel Pilon]

It's actually not rocket science. Even if the workers have open work permits, if good employers are offering good working conditions and good accommodation, the workers will want to work for them and won't look elsewhere, quite the contrary.

On the other hand, if they're employed by people like Jean Lemay, they'll just quit their jobs and go to work somewhere else that offers better working conditions.

Incidentally, I sit at the round table with employers. I tell them every time that the open work permits issue isn't very complicated because if they offer good working conditions, those workers will want to work for them, not someone else.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

How do you respond to people in regions such as Lac-Saint-Jean who are afraid that workers will be more attracted to the major urban centres? That's even a reality for young people living in the regions. Aren't these people right to be afraid that workers will leave for the major centres such as Quebec City, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver?

[Michel Pilon]

That's why we're in favour of an open work permit, but a sectoral one.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Borja Torres, I believe you would like to add something.

[Fernando Borja Torres]

Yes, thank you.

I agree with Mr. Pilon's remarks, but I also have to say that we've seen some very good employers lose workers. We don't know if they left for the United States or if they went to Montreal to work illegally, but the fact remains that those workers left their jobs even though they had good relations with their employer.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Are the Mexican cartels a problem these days? I'd briefly like to hear your opinion on that.

[Fernando Borja Torres]

I don't know if the cartels have anything to do with it, but I can tell you that, for some years now, many workers have left their jobs without giving notice to their employers. That's become more frequent in the past three years. There have been a little more than 300 so far this year.

So some workers leave the farms that employ them and we don't know where they go.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Pilon, could you add a few comments on the cartels?