Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 20th, 2024

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

That is a code specifically for this program.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

The program of using codes has never been used before except for this program, for specifically this community.

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

I'm not understanding the question.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I want to use my time appropriately. Maybe you can submit it later and let us know if this is something that's been done before.

I do have another question as well. Maybe the official can help answer this question, and the minister as well.

We have heard concerns from our communities that when Gazans are applying they have been asked extensive questions that have to do with social media, and identifying specific marks that are on their bodies. I've never heard of this before.

Can you clarify if this is something that we usually do? Why are we asking people about social media? Is this a regular practice?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Honourable Minister, please go ahead.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

There would be a variety of reasons, obviously, to get a complete background of the people who are applying. They are not Canadian citizens or permanent residents. This is something that was used, for example, in Afghanistan. Obviously, there are at times security reasons for that in order to get the full profile of someone whom we are trying to identify and get out in a very difficult context. Obviously, there's also the humanitarian concern of making sure people just have to stay alive. What I've asked my officials to do in this context is to show some operational flexibility, given the humanitarian concerns.

Yes, it has been used before. The challenge, obviously, is not being able to do biometrics in place, in Gaza. We have to be relatively certain before we take the next step of submitting a list that will be scrubbed by a party or parties with their own security concerns. Then we move on to the next stage of biometrics.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Can we maybe get the officials to submit, through our committee, other examples of when we've asked folks to submit social media?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Sure.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I want to go to the next question, again, because of the time.

This is about the cap on 1,000 applicants for the program. Could we get an understanding of why the decision was made on the cap of 1,000?

On the cap for the Sudanese, how did IRCC decide on 3,250? We have heard that this program has also not had not anybody come to Canada. What's the plan to actually make it work?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

In the case of the latter question, MP Kayabaga, the cap and the work that we did with respect to the Sudanese program—which has a permanent aspect to it—was done with a number of Sudanese umbrella organizations across Canada. Our own internal planning and planification have to do with the capacity of the diaspora members. That is something that, at times, can be a bit of an art and a bit of a science. We came to that number of 3,000-plus on the theory that it would translate to about 5,000 actual people.

On the Gaza pathway, there's a bit more context in that it's a temporary measure for a number of reasons, including geopolitical considerations. There's also the fact that we did this is a relatively expedited time frame over the Christmas period. That makes it unique compared with our similarly situated partners, who have not done this.

We are out there as an example with a unique program. We didn't know exactly what the numbers were. Therefore, we established this cap in that optic and context, knowing that, inevitably, we would probably have to increase it once we got a sense of the numbers. We now have a better sense of the numbers, and we are moving to show some flexibility and to increase it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Madam Kayabaga.

We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Go ahead, for six minutes, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today. I'm sorry I couldn't be there in person and instead have to use Zoom, but this was my only option.

I want to talk about a very specific case that will perhaps give you an idea of why we are having trouble understanding your program, which you put in place around Christmas.

Nibal Lubbad, a Canadian doctor of Palestinian origin who lives in the Niagara region, contacted me about her family in Gaza. Both of her parents managed to get out of Gaza at the eleventh hour and ended up in Egypt. She contacted me because she wasn't getting any help from the Conservative MP who represents her riding. People referred her to me. I tried to contact people in your office to get her parents out of there, But I had one heck of a time, sadly. Her father's name is Khalil Lubbad, and her mother's name is Yosra Lubbad.

It was December 22 or 23, during the holidays. I'm always working, Minister, no matter what time or day it is. To this day, we still haven't received a response from the department. They even asked Mrs. Lubbad to send them some missing documents, which she had already sent. She sent them again and, since then, there has been no contact from your department about this program.

Can I have your assurance today that someone from your office will contact me after the session so that we can resolve the issue and bring these people here to Canada?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

First of all, thank you for bringing this situation to my attention. I'm delighted to know that, at the very least, her family members are safe, even if they are in Egypt. Assuming they meet the program criteria, they can expect to be able to come to Canada as family members. This is the first time you've mentioned this to me in person. I'd be delighted to work with my team and follow up.

Of course, we're working hard to get people with family connections in Canada out of Gaza, even if it means they have to go through Egypt, for example, to be safe and sound before they can come to the country. However, I want you to know that we will be working on this with my team, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, I'm going to stop the clock for a second. I think the bells are ringing.

Is there unanimous consent in the committee to continue and stop the clock? No?

We don't have unanimous consent. I have to suspend the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I call the meeting back to order.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe has three minutes left of his time. It's my understanding that he is going to take one minute and share two minutes of his time with Mr. Morrice.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, if that is correct, please go ahead for the remaining one minute.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be brief.

Minister, you told us that this program had to be put in place at the last minute. It was over the holidays, and it was not easy.

Two years ago, I suggested to your government that IRCC set up an emergency division in order to respond to a major international crisis. If this division had been put in place, Minister, we wouldn't be in this situation. You yourself said that your officials were examining the possibility of implementing it. Two years ago, I presented a ready-made strategy, and now, if it were in place, we'd have taken a completely different approach.

Are you going to set up an emergency division at IRCC in the event of an international crisis? If so, when will this happen?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I can't make any assumptions about how promptly we might have responded to such a situation. I know that a crisis unit exists. It's in place, but there are still guidelines that need to be defined. We have people working on this crisis response framework.

According to the testimonials I received from our international partners, they were surprised at how quickly we were able to put such a program in place, especially over the holidays. I know that my deputy minister and her replacement had to put a lot of effort into ensuring that the program saw the light of day so quickly, in early January.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Were they—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We'll go to Mr. Morrice.

I apologize, but you are out of time, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Just a second, Mr. Chair.

Were they surprised with the results, Minister?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Who is “they”?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Our international partners.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

No, they weren't surprised in the least. They thought it was incredible that we were able to put it in place, and they're just as frustrated as we are that they haven't been able to achieve more positive results with other measures that were implemented.

This program is, in fact, a model to follow. So far, however, it has not been as successful as we had hoped.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It's a model to follow, but there have not been any results.

I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Morrice.