Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 6th, 2025

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Have you seen similar cases in the past?

[Julia Green]

Yes, I have. I specialize in domestic violence cases. Many of my clients experience situations like that.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

At the end of your opening remarks, you talked about exemptions that should be included in the bill, but you didn't have time to finish what you were saying.

Can you expand on that?

[Julia Green]

That's right, I did suggest that there should be exceptions. For example, I talked about domestic violence situations and cases involving a person's sexual orientation or gender identity.

I would say that, when there is a significant change in the asylum seeker's personal circumstances or the overall situation in their country of origin, that could be one of the exceptions.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Do you think these exceptions should be added to the current bill through an amendment?

[Julia Green]

If the amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act go through, those exceptions could be added.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I'm certainly not a legal expert.

Do you know where this amendment should be added?

I would like you to send us your answer in writing.

[Julia Green]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

You have one minute left, Mr. Simard.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a question for all of the witnesses.

I'd like to know what they think of the minister getting more powers.

What impact could that have?

I'm not sure which witness is best suited to answer that question.

[Deanna Okun-Nachoff]

I think one of the things we're hearing is that we are trying to accomplish multiple things through our immigration programming, including trying to meet their unique labour market needs. As I said in my opening remarks, I think one of the real concerns is that there will be this downstream effect where, by making decisions where we can't foresee what the end impact will be, it will actually hurt our reputation and make it difficult for us to attract that talent. It will end up having a negative effect on those economic goals that the minister has before her.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

Now we will move to five-minute rounds.

Mr. Ma, you have five minutes.

Thank you.

[Michael Ma, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My questions will be addressed Ms. Okun-Nachoff.

Earlier today, you talked about the report that you published this year, entitled “Law, Technology, and Accountability”. In section 2.1, you speak out against the “top down” and “ad hoc” nature of ministerial instructions, public policies and technocratic decision-making. You also outlined that these non-regulatory instruments weaken “public confidence in the system's integrity”.

Do you feel that part 7 of Bill C-12 is further breaking the Canadian immigration system by taking us in this direction of top-down, ad hoc and technocratic decision-making?

[Deanna Okun-Nachoff]

In a word, yes.

[Michael Ma, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

[Deanna Okun-Nachoff]

I think the Canadian Bar Association spoke quite clearly about the fact that the creation of ministerial instructions was a way of subverting the regulatory process. We have seen how it has created a real patchwork of different programs that have made it difficult for people to follow what the avenues were, and have diminished transparency for people who are coming to Canada.

[Michael Ma, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

There was an article in CBA's National Magazine advertising your 100 recommendations, which, again, you mentioned earlier. You said, “There's a joke around the Immigration Section that if you go out for a cup of coffee, when you come back, there are new rules in place.” You spoke about the “lack of transparency, consistency, discussion and debate in working through policies before they're enacted and start impacting people’s lives.”

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre—Don Valley East, ON]

I have a point of order.

Madam Chair, the bells are ringing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you.

The bells are ringing, so I would need unanimous to continue. Can I get unanimous consent for us to continue until 5:30?

[An hon. member]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Since we do not unanimous consent, I will now adjourn the meeting. Before I do that, thank you so much to our witnesses. That was excellent.

The meeting is adjourned.