Evidence of meeting #11 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was claim.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
If they return to their country, the question that would pose is the legitimacy of the claim. If they go back to their country of persecution, that would put into question the veracity and—
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you so much. You're way past your time, Mr. Redekopp.
We will move on for six minutes to Mr. Fragiskatos.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the officials for being here.
I understand the wider context you've set out. I think it's very important, and I'm going to get you to speak about it again, Ms. Brassard. You gave a number of statistics at the outset and compared them to 10 years ago. Obviously, there are more claims that have been put forward on an annual basis. How does this compare with other countries, for example?
I think it's important to put the matter into its proper context, because looked at in isolation, we might think that Canada is dealing with this challenge on its own, but there's a global situation that's given rise to all of this. Isn't that true?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
What I can say is what I hear from the UNHCR; I don't know if they've been invited to your committee. The number of people on the move due to war-torn situations, civil wars and other difficult situations is on the rise. If people are on the move, they're going to seek asylum or protection elsewhere.
Canada is not the only country with larger numbers of refugee claimants over time. You're absolutely right. It is not a situation unique to Canada. It is broader than that. Now, I can't offer numbers by way of the size of the growth and the rapidity of the growth compared to what we saw, but there are large case inventories in other countries, definitely.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
What is the number of asylum claims that were made in 2023 or 2024?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
There were 154,000, and then 176,000 claims.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
I'm looking at a page on the website of the European Union. Germany is the country that I've pulled up. It's a comparable country in many respects. For first-time applicants in 2023, there were 329,000-plus people. For 2024, it was almost 230,000 people. In the U.K., there are close to 100,000 applications for asylum.
This is why I say the global context is very significant to our understanding.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Absolutely.
Canada is not alone. The point I was trying to make was the extremely fast increase from 75,000, which I believe was the last year before we got to 150,000 and then to 266,000.
The shock to the system at the IRB was this large increase that got us to historical levels. I arrived at that time. I was not expecting such large numbers. It's the push and the increase compared to the capacity of the system.
That was by way of trying to explain the situation of the case law. It's not to say that Canada was alone. On the contrary, a lot of countries are facing that question.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
I want to ask you about what's being done to get through the claims as expeditiously as possible while ensuring that basic standards, rule of law and basic human rights standards are upheld.
What is the IRB doing in that respect?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
We're a tribunal and therefore we have board members. We train them. A number of them are lawyers by training already, but not all of them. The initial training is anywhere from six to eight weeks, depending on where they start from. There is one year when they're coached. They have the assistance of legal services in issuing reasons, so their ongoing training continues.
We also make sure that every member, new or experienced, has legal updates. As the Federal Court continues to issue decisions, it is important that we keep up to speed with this.
Our hearings are conducted so that we have an interpreter. They are represented by counsel. When credibility is an issue, it's always put to them that reasons follow Vavilov. They need to be understandable and they need to be justified. We follow the basics that are required by the courts.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
I just have a minute left. I am going to ask you about discussions you have with relevant tribunals in other comparable countries. I mentioned Germany and the U.K. before. You can list other countries if you wish.
Their systems are also overwhelmed with many claims. Do you talk about methods and approaches to get through things as efficiently and effectively as possibly?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
There is an association of immigration judges, of which I am a member. Our staff collaborate and exchange views with a number of countries. We're often regarded as doing better and having things to offer to other tribunals by way of how we process things and our ability in using some technology.
Yes, there is some collaboration and exchange of ideas, but you have to understand that we're not necessarily starting from the same legal framework. Therefore we learn from each other's experiences, but it's not necessarily easily transferable from one country to the next.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
You are out of time, Mr. Fragiskatos. I'm very sorry.
Thank you, Ms. Brassard.
Mr. Simard, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Brassard, thank you for being with us.
I would like to pick up on what my colleague, Mr. Fragiskatos, was talking about.
In 2022-23, if memory serves, I helped a Salvadoran family settle in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. Unfortunately for me, the media picked up the story, and it snowballed from there. Countless asylum seekers came to my office asking for help.
I shared that because I truly believe we hit record numbers in 2022‑23 and 2024‑25. You actually talked about that in your opening remarks.
Part of the reason for that is probably the international context. That said, I'm sure Mr. Trudeau's statements had something to do with it. When a prime minister says his country will welcome people and that immigrants are welcome, that's warm and fuzzy and generous, but the fact is that a lot of people get their information from social media, so I can understand why that would have a snowball effect.
I say this because I want to understand the growth curve for asylum claims.
Do you have statistics to share with the committee on that? You said that 2022‑23 and 2024‑25 were record years, but I get the impression that there was an upward trend in the number of asylum seekers coming to Canada before that.
I don't know if you can send the committee information about that. I'd like to see at what point that growth curve started going up disproportionately.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Actually, we saw significant increases in 2023‑24 and 2024‑25. In 2022‑23, it was still relatively stable.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
I've been following the Roxham Road saga. Perhaps you have, too. Over a 10-year period, there must have been a point when the number of asylum seekers increased significantly. Quebec says it took in a disproportionate number of asylum seekers.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Numbers started increasing rapidly in 2021‑22, when 32,000 asylum claims were referred.
In 2022‑23, that number jumped to 79,000. In 2023‑24, it went up to 156,000, and in 2024‑25, it increased to 173,000.
We'll send you a table illustrating those numbers.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
I don't have that information here at the moment.
However, I can tell you where the asylum seekers are now, because we have their addresses. Nearly 37% of them have an address in Quebec.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
You're saying that 37% of asylum seekers currently have an address in Quebec.
Is that right?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Yes, but I should emphasize that, if a change of address has not been made, our figures will not be accurate.
In addition, 46% of asylum seekers are currently in Ontario, 12% are in the western provinces, and 1% are in the maritime provinces.
Nearly 4% of asylum seekers have not yet provided us with an address.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
According to these statistics, the distribution of asylum seekers across the country is not necessarily consistent with demographic weight.
Would you agree with me on that?
Quebec has 37% of the asylum seekers, but it has 20% of Canada's population.
