Evidence of meeting #13 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was use.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Ms. Hamilton. I'm sorry. That's time.
Our next five minutes are with Ms. Rempel Garner.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Thank you, Chair.
I want to go back to the mass cancellation powers. In earlier testimony, you outlined that these powers could be used in cases of fraud. Do you plan on using them, should the bill pass, to address cases of fraud? Are there any active cases that you would use this on?
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We don't have any active plans to use it—no.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
There are no active plans at present to use the power whatsoever.
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
No.
Conservative
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We proposed it on the tail end of experiences that we learned through COVID, where we saw that there could have been a need to have a mass power to extend or pause documents—applications—and we thought it was a good idea to be able to respond to crises and emergency situations in a nimble manner.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Ms. Lang, if we're sitting here 18 months from now and I pull up this testimony and I'm doing ATIPs on you guys, there's nothing that you would have been planning to use these powers for, absolutely nothing...?
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We have no plans to use the power. We're not going to turn around if the bill passes and start submitting an order in council. I mean, there are going to be areas of the department.... There could be groups that come to us to say, “Hey, maybe we should look at this.” There are emerging threats on a daily basis—
Conservative
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Because we don't know what's around the corner. We need that flexibility.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I also don't understand why you couldn't use legislation.
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Because legislation takes a super long time to pass.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
This is a pretty big power that you're asking for. Shouldn't it require—
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It's a big power with a significant amount of checks and balances. It's not one—
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Because you don't come to Parliament through this. Is that right?
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
On a point of order.
I love my colleague Ms. Rempel, but I have to intervene to protect the health and safety of our interpreters, who are having trouble doing their job right now.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I guess what I'm trying to understand here is that if you have no plans to use this and there wasn't really a circumstance in the past where you needed it, why should we devolve these powers to you without any parliamentary oversight? You're not making the case for me here, and I'm honestly on the fence.
Mr. Zuberi has raised some points about defining the powers. Why would we give you these powers if you don't plan to use them? Give me an example.
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
An example is that six months from now we have intelligence that a country called “Mike” is planning foreign espionage, and we have received an uptake in applications. We see that there's something weird going on. Instead of looking at these one by one and allowing these people to come into the country, tying up border offices, we could put in a recommendation to the order in council to say that “this cohort of applications with the name Michelle Rempel Garner, coming from Mike country, applied here”. We will pause and we will review them, and we will try to build a case to see whether or not this is a risk to Canada.
Conservative
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We don't have that power already today.
Conservative
Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We do not have the ability to pause any kind of processing of applications—en masse, case by case....