Evidence of meeting #19 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was claimants.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you so much, Professor Macklin and Ms. Zahid.
Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
What would be the main challenges for organizations such as yours that are currently helping asylum seekers, apart from funding?
Do organizations such as yours face other major challenges?
Director, Quebec Government Relations, The Refugee Centre
In our proposals, the documentation issue is certainly a major challenge. We talked about the time it takes to obtain documents. However, another concern is the recognition of these documents.
We agree that our immigration system is a bit complex. However, various government institutions, such as hospitals or schools, lack knowledge and staff. In addition, everything changes very quickly for these people, who are unable to keep up to date. As a result, many of them are denied the services that would normally be available.
However, the situation is poorly understood, the documents aren't consistent or standardized and many small documents add up, an issue that could be resolved by a card with a QR code that groups all these documents together. This means that we often need to accompany people to their appointments to ensure that they can access the services available to them. All this creates a major barrier.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You referred to systems that already exist in Sweden, as you specified. We could draw inspiration from practices in other parts of the world.
Do you have many clients who were exploited by organized crime groups in their efforts to cross the border illegally?
Are you getting a growing sense of this? We often hear about networks that prey in particular on Haitians, who must flee because they're living in fear in the United States?
Director, Quebec Government Relations, The Refugee Centre
We haven't necessarily seen these examples at The Refugee Centre. However, we've heard about them. It certainly makes sense, given the closure of Roxham Road. The more borders are closed, the more access is denied, the more vulnerable people become. People are forced to take steps that they wouldn't normally consider, but that serve as a last resort to gain access to the country. I'm not speaking from personal experience, but this does indeed happen.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Ms. Gracia‑Turgeon and Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.
We now have five minutes for Mr. Redekopp.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses for being here.
Ms. Macklin, I want to pick up on something my colleague Mr. Ho was talking about. For example, there was a trial for three men in Abbotsford who murdered an elderly couple, Arnold and Joanne De Jong. It started last month. One of the accused is an Indian national who is in Canada on a student visa.
If someone like him chooses to make an asylum claim after the fact, once they've been charged with this, do you believe that they should be eligible to claim asylum, or should Canada be able to deport someone like that?
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Under Canadian law as it currently exists, that person would be ineligible to seek refugee protection.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
We've seen this happen. For example, just last month in B.C., a dozen people were charged with extortion, I believe in Surrey. They all turned around and claimed asylum.
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
If they are convicted, they are ineligible to make refugee claims.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
They weren't convicted yet, but in the case of these 12, they clearly feared that.
Do you think it's right for them to be able to claim asylum after being in the country for a while?
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
They can claim asylum. I don't know that it's right or wrong for them to be able to claim asylum, but they're not going to be eligible if they are convicted.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
They're going to go through the process. It's going to take a number of years. They're going to claim a bunch of resources. They're going to be protected in Canada while they do that.
Do you think that's fair to the rest of the citizens of Canada?
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I think you are misstating what is likely to happen. They've been charged with extortion. They will be tried for that offence. If they are convicted of that offence, they will be ineligible because the eligibility requirements make them ineligible.
I don't think it would take years to determine eligibility. What may take time—and I don't know how long it would take—is the criminal process regarding extortion.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Let's follow that through and say that, yes, they were deemed ineligible. In your experience, do people like that leave the country?
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Certainly, if people have been convicted of offences, they are likely to be deported because they're in custody. For example, what typically happens is this: If they are given a custodial sentence, they are subject to removal from Canada, virtually on the date of release from the custodial sentence. They tend to be removed.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
We all know that the CBSA can only remove so many people. A very limited number of people are removed.
In your experience, do people hang around until they're removed, or do they voluntarily leave the country?
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
In the situation you describe, if somebody is subject to a custodial sentence, they don't hang around. Historically, CBSA has prioritized people who are serving criminal sentences because, frankly, they're easy to find. They don't get released. They often end up being put immediately into immigration detention, which may or may not be, in fact, in a jail or a detention centre.
Actually, they are the people who are probably most likely to be deported.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Not that long ago, we saw a report saying there were 34,000 people with this status who were in our country and had not been deported yet.
Do you recognize—
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I'm sorry; what status do you mean? Do you mean people who have been convicted of criminal offences?
Conservative
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
“People who need to be deported” is a very large category. Most of those people have never been charged or convicted of a criminal offence; they're just people who have been found not to have any legal status anymore, for one reason or another.
One challenge about that 34,000 number, though, is that Canada, like most countries, doesn't actually have exit controls. The government may say that there are 34,000 people subject to removal—that is, removal notices have been issued. What the government doesn't know, typically, is how many of those people have actually left of their own accord, because they don't check in with the government to tell them they're leaving.
Some number of those, for sure, will be in Canada—
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Can I interrupt for a second? We're going to run out of time.
Do you think the government should be tracking who leaves the country?
Professor and Chair in Human Rights Law, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I'm not sure it's feasible. The most the government currently does is track the people who leave overland from Canada to the United States. How do they do that? The United States documents people who enter the United States and then shares that information with Canada. That's how Canada registers who leaves.