Evidence of meeting #25 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Lena Metlege Diab  Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship
Harris  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Sodhi.

Mr. Deschênes, you now have the floor for six minutes.

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, Minister.

A few minutes ago, the Auditor General of Canada tabled in the House of Commons a rather scathing report on your department's work to ensure the integrity of the international student program. The report shows that educational institutions flagged for the department 150,000 cases of students who potentially failed to comply with the terms of their study permits. Your department investigated only 4,000 of these 150,000 cases. Moreover, 40% of these 4,000 investigations weren't completed because you simply didn't hear back from the applicants.

Another element is quite striking. The Auditor General carried out random audits. She looked at three reports, which showed that 800 foreign students used fraudulent documents. They claimed to come from either a non‑existent CEGEP or a diploma mill. Your department had no plans to take any action regarding the 800 study permits already approved.

Ms. Diab, are you satisfied with your department's work?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

Thank you for this question, which covers many aspects.

First, I had a short meeting with the Auditor General, but I haven't read the report yet. I would like to thank the Office of the Auditor General for this report.

Also, the report covers 18 months. I was a minister for four of those months. However, the upcoming changes will take place over four or five years.

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

Yet the Auditor General said that 800 study permit applications were based on fraudulent documents, but that your department didn't take any action.

Ms. Diab, as the minister in office, are you satisfied with the work carried out?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

We would like to thank the auditor for her report. We'll do more than what she asked for. She acknowledged the progress already made to strengthen the program.

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

She spoke about critical weaknesses in the program's integrity controls. She spoke about serious issues, Minister.

I'll ask you my question again. Are you satisfied with the Department of Citizenship and Immigration's work regarding foreign students?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

May I respond in English?

First of all, the report covers 18 months over a four-year period when the program was happening. We accept the report recommendations, and we will be working with the provinces and territories—

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

What are your thoughts on this report? Minister, aren't you concerned about the fact that your department investigated only 4,000 of the 150,000 possible problem cases?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

Yes, absolutely. The Department of Citizenship and Immigration has the funding to carry out 2,000 investigations a year. We accept the Auditor General's recommendations and we'll work on them.

As I said, we will continue to strengthen the international student program and we will take concrete steps to address the general recommendations.

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

I'm pleased to hear that you're concerned about this. I'm concerned about this. I don't understand. The department was asked to follow up and the colleges and universities were asked to send reports. However, no one was available to analyze them. Ultimately, only 4,000 of the 150,000 cases were investigated. How is this possible? Furthermore, 40% of these 4,000 investigations were unsuccessful. People didn't respond and nothing else happened.

Isn't your department's total lack of integrity control cause for deep concern?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

As I said, we'll be working with the provinces on the allocation formula. We'll be looking more closely at people's applications to extend their permits. We'll be following up more effectively and systematically on potential cases of non‑compliance or fraud. We'll also be working with—

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

You touched briefly on the finance issue. Are you telling us today that your department needs more financial resources to ensure the integrity of the system?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

That probably isn't a bad idea. We also work with the Canada Border Services Agency.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Thank you, Mr. Deschênes and Minister Diab.

That's six minutes.

Next we have a second round of questions, with five minutes for Mr. Menegakis, please.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being with us today.

Minister, do you believe the names of known IRGC operatives and those in other terrorist organizations should be immediately released once known?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

I believe you're referring to an earlier committee where that was posed. I believe there was a name that had been—

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

No. What I'm referring to—

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

—already reported in the papers.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

I'm referring—

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

I'm not privy to such information.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

My question is, do you believe that once we know who they are, their names should be immediately released?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

The CBSA works on those investigations and on those deportations and removals.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Do you believe the names should be released, yes or no?

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

I'll leave it to the CBSA to answer that question.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

You're deflecting it over to the CBSA.

Is it the Liberal government's position that the IRB should withhold the names in the future of known terrorists your department let into the country?