Evidence of meeting #33 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A video is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
—and we have accountability reports in place to drive that, is an important part.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Ms. Stellinga. I'm sorry. We've run out of time.
Thank you, Ms. Sodhi.
Mr. Deschênes for six minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I would like to thank all my colleagues on the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration for agreeing to consider this important study motion from the Bloc Québécois, which aims to explore ways to distribute asylum seekers more equitably among the provinces.
Quebec represents 22% of the Canadian population and, according to the latest figures, we receive 37% of all asylum seekers in Canada. Quebec is certainly a welcoming society, but asylum seekers must be properly integrated, and that costs money. There is also the issue of French. According to the French language commissioner, more than a third of asylum seekers do not speak French upon arrival.
That's why we want to explore solutions to ensure equitable distribution. We note that the European Union has concluded a pact to better distribute asylum seekers, which will come into effect in June 2026, and Denmark and Germany have implemented a solution as well.
Mr. Barutciski, thank you for joining us.
First of all, since you gave Germany as an example, can you tell me what motivated Germany to implement a process for transferring asylum seekers?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
The German experience has been an issue for several years. Many asylum seekers from various European countries were trying to make their way to Germany. As a result, Germany ended up with a much higher proportion of asylum seekers. In that sense, it’s perhaps a bit like the situation in Quebec. However, Germany is not a point of entry nor the first country asylum seekers enter. You could say it’s a secondary migration. They pass through other countries. Germany wanted responsibilities to be shared with other European partners, because migrants and asylum seekers inevitably had to cross through other countries, but they ended up in Germany. That is why Germany wanted this system to be changed.
As I said, this was an ongoing problem for several years. Now, according to the government and the public, they have too many asylum seekers. That's why they are seeking to encourage their European partners to distribute these asylum seekers.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
We will now turn to the German formula. I would like you to explain it to the committee.
Earlier, you mentioned a question I had asked a senior official at the Department of Immigration, namely whether asylum seekers could be transferred. He replied that, under section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the right to freedom of movement would prevent that. However, when I read Section 6, I interpret it the same way you do: This section applies only to citizens and permanent residents.
In your opinion, was this perception by a senior official at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada incorrect?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
Yes. As I have written on several occasions, in my view, this is clearly incorrect.
I would go a step further and say that it's somewhat surprising that this kind of idea is circulating within the department. I understand why we want to promote rights and why we want to protect migrants, but we don’t want to go too far either. That’s what I was saying earlier. We want to find a reasonable balance. Claiming that there is a right that does not exist in the charter—I think that’s an example of the problems we’ve faced in recent years. We exaggerate rights, and that inevitably leads to problems, I would say. If the Europeans—
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
The key point is that section 6 is clear. It explicitly states that every Canadian citizen and every person with permanent resident status in Canada has the right to move and earn a living in any province.
In your opinion, regarding the legality of a process to fairly distribute asylum seekers, you do not see any legal issues under Canadian law. Is that correct?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
With regard to an asylum seeker’s freedom of movement, there may be other equality-related concerns, but when it comes to the ability to move or work in another province, I think section 6 is perfectly clear. It couldn’t be any clearer than that.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Perfect.
We have one minute and thirty seconds left. Tell us about the German formula. You mentioned the weighting between the integration capacity and the economic strength of the Länder. How does this formula work? What results have we seen so far?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
As I’ve already suggested, I think this is an interesting model that warrants further study. The idea is that when an asylum seeker arrives, a computer program will determine which Land the person should go to. That is where the reception services, which my colleague mentioned, are waiting for that person. It is an indirect way of not forcing, but rather encouraging and guiding asylum seekers to go to certain regions. The idea is to distribute asylum seekers so that they do not all end up in large urban centres, as I had suggested. We want to distribute them across the regions. So they’re not just in Berlin; they’re also in Brandenburg or Thuringia, where services are waiting for them. We’re trying to distribute them. The Germans suggest that the public feels more comfortable with having control over its asylum seekers, and this allows the government to keep the doors open, so to speak.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
In 10 seconds, can you tell me how that works?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
It’s hard to be categorical, but to a certain extent, I think it works well enough in this context to warrant our attention. If we want to develop a model, we absolutely must look at this German example.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Barutciski.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Mr. Deschênes and Professor Barutciski.
That completes our first round of questions.
We now move to the second round of questions, which is for five minutes each. First, we have Mr. Ho.
Mr. Ho, your five minutes start now.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My questions are for Mr. Jacques at Peel Region.
Mr. Jacques, what sorts of services does the region of Peel provide to asylum claimants?
Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
We hire organizations such as COSTI to provide those services, but we also provide health care services. From a public health perspective, there's a doctor, nurses and public health officials on site to make sure that all the vaccinations are up to speed.
We provide employment counselling as well as employment opportunities. We bring in companies such as Tim Hortons, for example, to run job fairs for individuals. We work with them on housing and housing navigation to understand what housing opportunities are available for them, and there are career opportunities for them—
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Does that include providing three meals a day for asylum claimants?
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Does that include providing services like shelters, hotels and other housing accommodations temporarily?
Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
Yes, it does for families. For individuals—
Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
It's a cost shared between the federal government and the municipality.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
What money does Peel receive from the federal government through the interim housing assistance program?
Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
For eligible costs for 2025-26, we received 95% of eligible costs for transitional housing in the reception centre from the federal government, with Peel responsible for 5%.