Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 25th, 2026

[David Clinton]

It's obvious that all governments react to the loudest, squeakiest wheel. The people motivated to squeak louder and provide political pressure are always going to get an audience, I suppose. That's fair, and that's part of the system.

I can't think, offhand, of any concrete examples of specific mechanisms through which these voices might have skewed the system. The system certainly seems to have been skewed, though.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

We've seen an influx of over a million temporary residents over recent years, let in by the Liberal government.

Do you think that's based more on ideology or more on evidence?

[David Clinton]

I haven't seen much evidence of evidence. Beyond the obvious and universally agreed-upon principle that we want to help people around the world who need us—I think everybody agrees with that—I haven't seen evidence that more strategic thinking is being applied.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Of course, immigration policy should serve the national interest and the interest of Canadians.

We've seen immigration officials and the Liberal immigration minister testify that there were no caps on temporary residents. In an article, you said, “the Refugee Law Data site data apparently found a strong correlation between low recognition rates and briefer employment at the IRB. In other words, members who say ‘yes’ [and approve more applications] more often last longer in their jobs.”

Do you believe IRB officials are letting asylum claimants stay due to fear of repercussions surrounding their job?

[David Clinton]

That's an important point.

I should say that I read that report. I can't independently confirm it, but it seems to make sense that there are obviously incentives inside IRB to move things quickly. We're the ones putting pressure on them. The country and the government are putting pressure on the IRB to move quickly. It makes sense that individual members of the IRB would feel pressure to expedite the process.

The risk, of course, is that there won't be due process and that people who should be caught before being approved won't be. I would be surprised if there weren't such pressures. Is that correlation between tenure and the number of recognitions they provide real? I can't say for sure that it is real, but it's possible.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

It's possible that asylum claimants who would not otherwise be approved are slipping in because of these pressures.

[David Clinton]

I would be surprised if they weren't. There's no way any government or organization can handle 500,000 human beings in a real-world situation.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Right.

Do you think there's a real risk that perhaps we're admitting criminals into the country because of this pressure?

[David Clinton]

I'd say it's obvious that we already have and we continue to. Whether that's an acceptable level of risk, I don't know. It could be that's an acceptable risk. No system is perfect, but it certainly happens.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

I'll turn the page a bit, Mr. Clinton. You've written about the temporary foreign worker program, and you question whether it's still being used to address genuine labour shortages. In your view, has the Liberal government allowed the program to drift from filling genuine shortages into supplying low-cost labour, thus suppressing wages for Canadian workers?

[David Clinton]

I'm actually of two minds on that. On the one hand, in looking at the regular reports that various government agencies are releasing, it seems that they are still trying to monitor the actual labour situation and trying to be responsive to it in their policy. It does seem that it is still.... Well, it's being applied and, hopefully, it's working. I don't know. Is it really in sync with the real situation on the ground? I don't know. I don't have enough insight or data to know that. I know that one of my sons keeps complaining about the labour—

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

You have 30 seconds.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

We're seeing unemployment at almost 15%. These are recessionary levels, and in urban centres it's much higher. Do you think the Liberal government has mismanaged this program?

[David Clinton]

It's possible, or it may not even be at a government level. It may be at a ministry level or at an agency level. I'm not sure, but there are pressures and it's very likely that the TFWP is contributing to those pressures.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Mr. Clinton.

Thank you, Mr. Ho.

Next, we have six minutes for Mr. Chang.

Mr. Chang, your six minutes begin now.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first set of questions will be for Ms. Roulet.

Thank you for being here today. Your organization works on the ground, directly, with asylum seekers and newcomers every day. Could you share how rapid increases in asylum claims in recent years have affected your organization's capacity for staffing and housing support and your ability to provide quality settlement services?

[Héléna Roulet]

Thank you, Mr. Chang.

I’ll give time to my colleague, Ms. Mukamana, to add to that.

We are already seeing pressure on housing for the entire population. There are certainly still challenges. As we said at the outset, where we see even greater challenges is in terms of housing accessibility and understanding the legal status of asylum seekers. Landlords may find it difficult to understand the reality of these individuals’ situations. We therefore have a lot of awareness-raising to do in this regard to ensure that newcomers have access to housing. Since they have no credit history, this creates difficulties when it comes to obtaining credit.

As for the reality on the ground, depending on the number of people who arrive at Carrefour le Moutier, we are always concerned with meeting their needs. We consistently work in collaboration with other organizations to address the various essential needs of these individuals. Once housing is found, for example, we work with other organizations to find the means to furnish it.

Over the past two years, during periods of higher arrival numbers, we received additional support from government departments, which helped us. That is how we were able to manage the situation. Thanks to this funding opportunity, we created a position dedicated exclusively to serving all individuals. When someone walks through our doors, we truly want to offer them a social safety net as part of a comprehensive approach.

My colleague Ms. Mukamana would like to add something on this topic.

[Olive Mukamana]

We have also noticed an increase in requests for information or training from our partners in the community and other sectors who want to better understand what asylum seeker status entails, what services asylum seekers have access to, and what their reality is.

When a large number of newcomers arrived in our region, which led to the creation of emergency response teams, we looked to various sectors to try to determine how to address needs that reflect the possibility of shared responsibility in the face of a particular challenge. We then observed a mobilization, for which we were very grateful.

That said, we have nonetheless seen an increase in discourse that links various social problems to the arrival of people with a migration background or who are seeking asylum, more specifically.

For our part, we condemn this type of discourse and believe that structural and social issues, such as access to health care, education and housing, are problems already present in society. When new people arrive, these problems sometimes become more noticeable, but that is no reason to say that asylum seekers are the cause of these problems.

These are the kinds of arguments that certain groups and our organization have observed. Others have come together to counter this type of rhetoric, because it undermines social cohesion. We have also seen that it exacerbates the stigmatization of these individuals, most of whom are in vulnerable situations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Maybe I'll just stop the time for a minute. I'm noticing that the bells have gone. I will need unanimous consent to continue.

Should we just complete this first round of questions? That would take us to around 12:45, or actually, a little bit beforehand. Do you want to do a second round?

If we go 10 more minutes, that would take us to 10 minutes to one. We'll go until 1.50 p.m. if that's okay?

Mr. Deschênes, did you want to add something?

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Yes, I would even suggest that we continue the meeting until 1:00 p.m., so that we can benefit from the insights of all these witnesses, who are so enlightening. According to my calculations, the vote is at 1:08 p.m.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

I don't have any other information. I thought it was one o'clock.

Monsieur Joseph.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Chair, I don't think it's a good idea to continue until 1:00 p.m. My colleague may be able to vote using his phone, but that might not be the case for everyone around this table.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Can we check to see if the vote is at 1:08?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Rémi Bourgault]

It just started so it's certainly the 30-minute bell.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

If it's okay with everyone, we'll go to one o'clock.

Mr. Fragiskatos...?