Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 25th, 2026

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

You wrote, sir, that some IRB officials are better at resisting the pressure than others.

Can you please expand on where that pressure may be coming from?

[David Clinton]

I think it's from two directions, below and above.

From below, the pressures that are being faced by municipalities, by neighbourhoods and by all Canadians are well known, I'm sure, to the people in the IRB. I'm not a mind reader, but I would expect that they are sensitive to those pressures and they're trying to speed up.

From above, no doubt, there's political pressure to make the system work better, and I can't blame anybody for wanting such an outcome. It's natural that the IRB members will feel that they have to push harder, and it's an easy-to-predict risk that they'll push too hard.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

You mentioned the backlog of 500,000 people. In your testimony, sir, you also said that people who should be caught won't necessarily be caught. It's obvious that we're accepting some people into the country who are criminals. Do you not see a danger in that?

[David Clinton]

Yes, there is obviously danger. The question is, I suppose, how you assess what risk level is acceptable. Obviously, any large system is going to have holes, and some people are going to get through the holes. We have prisons for a reason. The question that only a government can answer is how wide those holes can be before the system has to be reconfigured.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Do you agree that Canadians expect the government to have a very robust system in place to ensure that anyone who's accepted into our country is safe to be around our families, our communities and our children, and safe to be around community centres and schools, walking the streets and living next door to us?

[David Clinton]

As a Canadian, I would certainly appreciate that. I also recognize that perfection is impossible, but I'd like to be closer to perfection, if possible.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Mr. Menegakis.

Thank you, Mr. Clinton.

Mr. Joseph, you now have the floor for three minutes.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I wanted to congratulate both Ms. Mukamana and Ms. Roulet for being with us today. They are from my riding.

I have a question about asylum seekers. Not long ago, a witness from the Îles de la Madeleine, in my colleague Mr. Deschênes' beautiful riding, told us the Tim Hortons was going to close due to the labour shortage.

Ms. Mukamana, I have a question for you. Are asylum seekers entitled to a work permit once their claim is submitted?

[Olive Mukamana]

Yes, they are entitled to a work permit, even initially. As soon as their claim is submitted, the permit must be issued while their claim is being processed.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay.

Do you think it would be a good idea to send—I won't say send because they have a work permit and the right to move about, so I won't say that. Do you think it would be a good thing if asylum seekers who hold work permits could fill the gaps caused by the labour shortage? I'm thinking of the Tim Hortons on the Îles de la Madeleine, which is going to shut down for lack of staff.

[Olive Mukamana]

Yes.

We note that the majority of requests for administrative support, across various processes, are about obtaining a work permit, especially renewals, given that people wait a long time for their claim to be processed. All of these people are working or want to work. Every asylum seeker has access to an open work permit, and this doesn't limit access to the labour market at all. It's more a matter of employer openness and the language barrier. Francization here in Quebec takes time to be acquired and accessible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

You have one minute.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Let me stop you there, Ms. Mukamana. Earlier, you mentioned the conflation. Can you tell us more about that? Can you tell us how this could harm the public?

[Olive Mukamana]

Yes.

When we look at all these social issues—access to housing, health care and education—and we attribute them to the increase in immigrants in the country, that is a conflation that greatly oversimplifies these social issues and attributes them largely to the arrival of asylum seekers. This, of course, leads to what we're seeing on the ground: further erosion of our social safety net. Social cohesion is greatly weakened by this kind of rhetoric. It doesn't help either when it comes to including and integrating these individuals, whether in terms of housing or in the workplace. So, ultimately, it doesn't help anyone.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

If I understand correctly, it undermines social cohesion—

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Mr. Joseph. Thank you, Ms. Mukamana.

There's one minute left for Mr. Deschênes.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Professor Fortin, let's continue with the Government of Quebec's request for $700 million to offset the cost of hosting asylum seekers. Let's take it a step further.

Could the fact that Quebec receives a very large number of asylum seekers limit its ability to provide them with good integration services?

[Pierre Fortin]

Clearly, the more asylum seekers there are, the more services will need to be provided. As a result, the capacity—which is already under significant strain—to provide these services eventually becomes insufficient. It's important to understand the impact of how efficiently and quickly the federal government is able to process cases. As a result, the shorter the wait times, the lower the costs for the Government of Quebec, the Government of Ontario, or others. Consequently, there is a federal responsibility here to expedite the process efficiently.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Professor Fortin.

Thank you, Mr. Deschênes.

That completes our second panel for today.

Thank you to all the witnesses today.

Thank you for your excellent responses. Thank you for your contribution to the study.

Our next meeting will be on Wednesday, May 27. A notice has been published.

I am now going to adjourn the meeting so that we can go vote.

Thank you.