Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 12th, 2006

[Karen Schuyler]

I don't know of any specific consultations that were done with aboriginal women.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

There is a whole series of regional consultations that are currently taking place, and I was concerned about the lack of reference to women and girls in the education action plan. There is no specific gender reference.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

I think we have to move on now to the government side, Mr. Bruinooge.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Good afternoon, and thanks for coming to the committee today.

I first want to correct some of the information my honourable colleague mistakenly stated. I'm sure he wasn't meaning to mislead or be partisan, but in fact the $1,200 per child isn't a tax credit but actually a direct payment. We Conservatives want to get the money out of the hands of government and put it right into the hands of parents, so I'm sure you'll see a lot more benefit. Sure, it's taxable, but all income is.

My question is in relation to something you said about governance and education reform. I think this might be really one of the key points. I think many in the first nations community, Inuit community and aboriginal people in general, tend to want to have control of the education itself.

Which route would you think is your preferred route of accomplishing that? Would it be waiting for a self-government scenario that encompasses all service delivery at the band level, or would you suggest specific education governance set up almost like a school board scenario?

I guess this question particularly relates more to first nations than to the overall aboriginal educational topic.

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

I would suggest that I would say no to any option that involves waiting, because our needs are very urgent. I don't think there's a blanket answer to what you're asking. What will work in one community is not necessarily going to work in another community. It's up to each first nation to decide what will work in the area of education for them.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Perhaps, then, what you're saying is that the self-government model would better accomplish the task you're laying out than trying to negotiate almost a school board scenario.

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

I would say that you should ask the individual communities about that, but I feel that we have waited long enough to have entitlements to education and opportunities to education that other Canadians rather take for granted.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

I would agree with that.

On the topic of Métis education, there's an AHRDA program throughout Canada that's utilized. How, in your experience, have you seen this operate? Has it been successful in the various jurisdictions? I know that in Manitoba it's gone quite well. But what's your experience overall?

[Karen Schuyler]

I think it's very successful. However, the dollars are never enough. There is a long waiting list in each of the communities for people to get into training.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

In the post-secondary program, currently there are roughly 25,000 bursaries, I believe, provided to first nations people across Canada. I think that is likely a very low number. Do you have an idea of what the overall need, the requirement, might be? Do you think this number is sufficient?

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

No, I don't think it's sufficient.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Have you seen the benefits, specifically for the education of your female constituents? You mentioned the 5:1 ratio. Do you also see that in the bursary program? Is there a similar 5:1 ratio?

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

I think that when women pursue education, it helps in many different areas. It sets an example for their children, that you can go out and get an education and get a job and go into fields you're suited for and enjoy doing, and that there is something beyond reserve life, which notoriously has a lack of educated people in it, generally speaking. That is one reason I think the number you're stating is very low, because as those children grow up and see the example of their mothers or parents of furthering their educations and living better lives, that says a whole lot. Example, to me, is a very good teacher.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Is there any trade or area of trades in particular that you've seen that perhaps most benefits the aboriginal community? You mentioned that there is a slant in the education system that pushes people towards post-secondary education at the university level, whereas I think everyone here would agree that the typical arts degree doesn't pay even 10% of what a trade can pay these days. Is there a genre of trades, in particular, that you see as something your organization would recommend?

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

In northern Manitoba, in Wuskwatim, for example, there's dam building. I think there are trades there that aboriginal people can certainly be involved with through apprenticeship programs. I understand that this is legislated in Manitoba, and I'm sure it's working pretty well. I'm not sure, but I know there has been a revision in the last couple of years, and I'm not sure to what extent the Manitoba government has followed the recommendations that were made in that study. To answer your question, I think that any of the trades that are relevant to economic development in the area would be a good thing to get into, depending on the preferences of the individuals.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We'll move on to Madam Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you both for coming this afternoon.

I have a couple of questions.

In another life I was involved with some access programming in the city of Winnipeg to support women into a whole host of different programs. I'd like to know what supports you see necessary to be in place to assist women, when they go into study and when they go into the workplace. My colleague referenced child care, but my own understanding is that there are other supports as well that are important for them.

You referenced the University of Manitoba access programs. I'm familiar with some of them, not all. Can you give us other examples, in Manitoba or anywhere in the country, of programming for women, particularly post-secondary or skills training--adult education, it needn't be post-secondary necessarily--where it has been particularly successful and made a difference in the lives of women?

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

In Vancouver, there is the Native Education Centre. They have a very strong ABE, adult basic education program. I used to teach there, actually, and I found that most of my students were women.

Some of the things we had as support for them within the centre were culturally appropriate programming and services--for example, parenting skills, healthy relationships, what we would call life skills, just knowing the community they were living in, how to get around on the buses, how to access the university library, things like that.

I think the fact of aboriginal women getting together, being together, and having an atmosphere and environment of exchanging ideas is very good in supporting each other--a network of support.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Is that happening? Are you aware of it happening in places across the country?

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

Yes, I think so, because I think aboriginal people at the post-secondary level tend to come together and get to know each other in ways that perhaps non-aboriginal people don't. But again, the extent of providing a solid network may or may not be there, and those are things that have to be built on.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Do you have any information or data on women who upgrade their skills, whether it's high school education or adult basic education, once they achieve some success where they move into post-secondary, professional, trades, or whatever? Have you collected any information on women entering the education stream and then moving on?

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

Actually, for most aboriginal women who get a degree, it's a degree in education. They might become teachers, or they might be in administration. But by far, the field of choice is education.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Albrecht, please.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thanks to both of you for coming today. I certainly can sense, both in your presentation and in the written material, your passion to see the plight of aboriginal women improved, and I applaud that.

I notice two things. I'll ask two quick questions, and then I want to share my time with Mr. Blaney.

You talk about the representation on school boards in terms of aboriginal people specifically, and then even more so, you point to the number of women serving on those boards. Are there a number of people who wish to serve on these boards and are not able to, for whatever reason, and could you tell me what those reasons are?

Secondly, you say competencies acquired through work should be recognized as well. Are you talking there about some type of apprenticeship system where we would evaluate that? I would be interested in you telling me a little more about that.

[Anita Olsen-Harper]

On the first point regarding the school boards and women, I think aboriginal women would not tend to gravitate towards sitting on a school board. I think we would think that's not really a very friendly place to be, and that our contributions would probably not be valued.