Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

So to be clear, there are two different things. There's one on this national survey over the country in terms of the demographics, employment issues, and so on, just to see, on a visual basis, where First Nations, Inuit, and Métis people are. We'll do that as our first order of business, then. We'll have the departmental people come in to do that. They can also relate and share in terms of a subsequent meeting--the Monday, perhaps--the various services they provide, the organization, the programs, and so on.

Is that agreeable to us as a committee? Are there any questions?

So if I see no comments in respect of that, are we all agreed to proceed in that manner? This Wednesday will be more of a demographic scan in respect of First Nations, Inuit, and Métis across the country.

We will proceed to the Monday, then, with a look at the particular services that DIAND provides--their organization and programs.

Do you have a question?

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I'm sure this goes without saying, but I just want to reiterate the request that we have both the PowerPoint materials and any written materials in both languages, and I would especially request that the PowerPoint materials, the slides, be available to all members for follow-up study after that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

Okay, that's fair.

So then we have those two initial meetings covered off here until a week beyond Wednesday. In effect, we've addressed some of the things that I think Monsieur Lemay has talked about: briefings have been covered off; having the minister in has been touched on. What, then, would be our item of business subsequent to having the minister in a week from Wednesday? What would be your next preference in terms of issues that we move on?

Is there any discussion?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm asking you a question because I don't have a ready answer. Each one of us sent a list of subjects that we'd like to deal with.

I feel that the Library of Parliament did its job properly, and I suggest that we send these documents to the department officials so that they can be aware of our concerns. They will come to speak to us on Wednesday or Monday and the minister will appear afterwards, and perhaps we will be in a position to decide on our future business because we will then have an idea where we are going. We'll have a better idea about things, although we already have quite a good understanding. At most, we will have five or six more meetings before the summer adjournment. We will have to decide on five or six subjects that we want to deal with as priorities before adjournment, provided our friends opposite don't decide to keep us until June 28.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

Okay, we'll propose that in the first week after the break week.... We'll then have had the minister in, had a look at and quizzed him, queried and challenged him with respect to the visions and the priorities. We'll also have had the departmental people in prior to that, so we'll have got a little better scan of the horizon.

But I don't want to short-circuit anything here, because we have some very good ideas. If you want to proceed on the laying out of a plan for right after the week's break, we could do that now, or at your suggestion we could adjourn the meeting today and wait until we come back from the break week to take up further discussion in respect of these.

Anita.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would ask that some consideration be given to a briefing from either the minister or senior departmental officials from the Department of Justice as to the impact of the new legislation introduced on aboriginal peoples, the new bills tabled in the House on mandatory minimums and--

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

On financial accountability.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

No, I'm talking about the justice bills. We all know that a disproportionate number of aboriginal peoples are currently in the justice system, and we all know that there are different forms of justice within aboriginal communities--restorative justice has had some success.

I'd like to have some understanding of what that bill does for aboriginal peoples.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

I am assuming that's what Mr. Merasty means under his suggested topic, aboriginal justice, but maybe it's broader than that.

I guess I'm saying, Anita, I don't see your specific suggestion on paper here, but I understand what you're saying.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I think Mr. Merasty put down the whole matter of aboriginal justice, but I raise this issue because the legislation is currently before the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

Right, okay. Is there a comment with respect to that?

If you're following it, I also note that, hopefully, the residential schools agreement is about to be approved by cabinet. In my view, it's overdue. We'll be getting at that soon enough. Maybe we should have a discussion with respect to that agreement sooner than later, before it's a done deal, so to speak. I think the one outstanding issue might be the issue of how quick the payments are getting out. I know there's been some talk of interim and early payments for older people who were in the residential schools.

There is some timeliness, as Ms. Neville rightly points out, with respect to the justice bill that's before the House, and certainly with respect to the residential schools agreement as well.

Are there any quick comments with respect to that? We have to do this in a timely fashion too. You can always discuss these things after the fact, but it might be better to have some input in advance.

Comments?

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

I guess my comment would be that it would make a lot of sense—at least to me as a new member who hasn't operated on this committee in the past—to maybe have a plan of all the different topics we're going to study, in order, and to decide on that as a committee at some point, perhaps either today or at the next meeting. I think that would be a prudent approach. I'm just putting that forward as an idea. Maybe there's a way we can indicate on a white board or what have you, all the topics we want to do, in the order we're going to do them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

Then we would obviously decide subsequently whether we take long or short terms of any one of these topics that we can maybe get quick and consensus agreement on.

Do I see any comment about Ms. Neville's proposal with respect to these justice bills and how they impact aboriginal people? That's probably a valid and very good suggestion. There's also the issue of the residential schools. That is a concern of mine, but I don't want to impose myself on you as a committee.

Any other things that are time issues here?

Monsieur Lévesque, Mr. Albrecht.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Among the subjects I proposed, I'd like to withdraw the second one for the time being, because it concerns heritage rather than Indians affairs. This is an urgent situation, and we must put the question to the minister.

In addition, since the researchers and our clerk speak both languages, I would like them to alternate between French and English when they speak to us, which would help us feel a little more valued here.

Now with regard to the issue we're discussing, depending on the subjects the committee will select, we will invite interested persons, be they from the Department of Justice or elsewhere. But first, the committee has to chose the subjects it deems most important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

Are you withdrawing the financing of aboriginal awareness week then? Are you withdrawing that, pulling that back? Is that what I understand you to say? You're pulling that back. Okay.

Do I hear agreement, then, that at the beginning of the week after we come back from the break week when the House rises, we would be calling in Justice officials with respect to the impact of those bills before the House on aboriginal people? Is that my understanding?

Subsequent and pursuant to that, we would also look at the residential schools agreement and having those folks in?

Sorry, Mr. Albrecht.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I think we're jumping ahead of ourselves here. I was under the impression these were shopping lists that we had each submitted. It's clear to me that there's a large degree of overlap. I think all it would take is a group of two or three people to sit down and come up with a list of six or eight and say these are the priorities as we know them now. I think the department officials who are going to brief us would be well served to get a condensed list of what this committee's current thinking is; it doesn't tie our hands. I think Ms. Neville's suggestion about justice would go on this list, and I would support that as one of these topics we would discuss in the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

In terms of sequence. Okay, I concur with that, and I think if I've understood correctly, we would go with the justice issues after we rise, after we come back, and then the residential schools.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I don't know about residential schools, but I think it's also important when we deal with the justice issues that we hear from aboriginal people themselves, not just the justice department, on how it impacts on them.

The other issue I want to flag to you, Mr. Chairman--and you were a member of the committee before--is an important issue, and there was an extensive study done, which I commend to members of the committee if they haven't read it yet, on the matrimonial real property law. There was a response from the government of the day last year. I don't know whether we want to resubmit that report and get a response from the current government. That is a pressing issue, an important issue for communities, so I would say that should have some priority.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

So we're having the department officials in this coming Wednesday and next Monday and the minister in the following Wednesday. The week we get back from the break we'll go to the impact on aboriginal peoples of the present Justice bills before the House and also endeavour--I'm saying to the clerk here--to have people in from the aboriginal communities who would actually respond in terms of the impact, the direct impact, on a personal, on-the-street kind of way.

[The Clerk]

On the same meeting?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I couldn't answer that. It's up to you to determine the length of it and what it's going to take in.

Mr. Chairman, we may be sitting here until July, so we may have a lot of time ahead of us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

Fair enough. So then you leave that to the discretion of the chair. If it takes a couple of meetings--

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It wouldn't matter. I think it's an important issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maurice Vellacott]

--in terms of getting department officials here and then scouring the country to find and get people who have been impacted directly, aboriginal people--

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I don't think we need to scour the country, but I think there are people and we can find names.