Evidence of meeting #3 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aboriginal.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
I'm thinking that you're coming with the intent of a friendly amendment. If Mr. Bruinooge wishes to move or accepts the amendment, then we don't need to have further debate or discussion in respect of it.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
You accept it as a friendly amendment.
The other thing we should draw to the attention, Mr. Lemay, or for the purposes of all committee members here, is that if we get into a discussion of main estimates or supplementary estimates as pertaining to residential schools, it is a different minister again. It is the Minister of Canadian Heritage who covers off that. Whether this requires a further friendly amendment, I leave to the committee, just so long as we have things covered off here.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I don't agree with you and let me explain why. If we're talking about the agreement on schools, that's a whole other matter. Here we're talking about the Main Estimates and the Supplementary Estimates tabled in the House. This is the wonderful document we received from Indian Affairs and Northern Development. I would like to see the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development come and appear before us. When it comes to the schools, that's a different issue.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
I understand. But just so we're clear here, I want to be transparent and up front on this issue. If it ever happened that there are main estimates or supplementary estimates with respect to this new office of residential schools, if you don't want to exclude that person, you may want to include this item as well.
Obviously, with respect to all other things it's the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. If you have no interest in calling this person forward—the Minister of Canadian Heritage—with respect to main estimates or supplementary estimates on residential schools, that's your pleasure, if you choose to do it. But that's in effect what you'd be doing. Anything that comes up in respect of residential schools, by way of the friendly amended motion here, would be excluded.
Is that clear?
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Yes and no. In fact, I think it's not clear.
Here's what I mean: when the subject before us is the Main Estimates or the Supplementary Estimates of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, we have to call on that department.
However, it we're talking about agreements or other documents, the committee will call upon the persons who are in the best position to help it make decisions.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Right. There's a whole bureaucracy that now deals with residential schools.
Todd.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
If I'm understanding correctly, there's nothing stopping the committee from calling the minister on these particular items of business or any other item of business, or the committee from calling any minister relative to any other initiative or piece of business, as far as I understand.
Maybe it's a good idea to have a motion to say we can call the minister on the supplementary estimates or the main estimates. We can do it anyway. We don't need a motion to say we should do it. We can do it.
We can call the minister on residential schools. We can call Bev Oda, the minister responsible for Canadian Heritage, on residential schools. If there's another issue.... We can call the finance minister, when we're talking about the main estimates, on why he never included the requisite funding for aboriginal people. I don't know why there's this major debate.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Let me respond, Todd, to that very quickly. This is just putting a mechanism in so that the onus is on the clerk, in effect. Then at the point when he has to monitor, or if you as committee members monitor while these things come forward, fine: spring it forward a month from now, or just set the time, when it does. But if one of us happens, in the busyness of our lives, to miss it, then the opportunity has gone by. If you get it on the books now, as automatic, then the onus in effect rests with the clerk to watch—and our staff here, so to speak—to monitor this and be sure we don't miss it when it comes forward.
I should add as well that these particular motions that we have before us, which have been used as routine motions over a short time by some committees, are—how would I call it—a way of holding the government to account. It's your tool as an opposition member, or as opposition parties, to hold the government to account.
I'm certainly at your pleasure in terms of what you choose. If you don't want anything else in and you want, as you say, Todd, to bring it forward ad hoc or as it comes up, you certainly are in a position to do that, if you choose to.
Do we have any other discussion with respect to the motion? It's a friendly amended motion that's on the floor.
Hearing no other—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
It reads:
That whenever the Main Estimates or Supplementary Estimates are tabled in the House, the Committee invite the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development and any relevant Senior Officials of a Department to appear at a meeting of the Committee and, if possible, that it be televised.
That's my understanding of the sense of the new, friendly amended motion.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
I believe that to be the case, except for the fact that it's not Aboriginal Affairs; it is Indian Affairs, but we'll let that go by.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Our committee is Aboriginal Affairs.
Now we will discuss this friendly amended motion if we all understand and are clear in respect of what is before us. Do we all agree to that?
(Motion as amended agreed to)
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
The second motion from Mr. Bruinooge:
Whenever a Chapter or a Report of the Auditor General refers to a subject under the mandate of the Committee, the Committee invite the Office of the Auditor General of Canada and any relevant Senior Officials of a Department to appear at a meeting of the Committee and, if possible, that it be televised.
Mr. Bruinooge has moved that. Is there general agreement? Is there any discussion?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Mr. Chair, I'd like to make an amendment to that. I would like to insert “That whenever a chapter of a report of the Auditor General”... insert at this point, “or matters under the Federal Accountability Act, or other legislation, refers to a subject under the mandate of this committee”. Then, where it says, “Auditor General of Canada”, I would say, “and/or any relevant senior officials of a department to appear at a meeting of the committee”.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
That is significant, possibly, but I should ask as well.... We've got an amendment here in respect of this. I think it's a little more....
4:55 p.m.
The Clerk
It reads:
That whenever a chapter of a report of the Auditor General refers to a subject under the mandate of the committee, or matters under the Federal Accountability Act--
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
It should read, if I might, Mr. Clerk:
That whenever a chapter of a report of the Auditor General, or matters under the Federal Accountability Act or other legislation refers to a subject under the mandate of the committee, the committee invite the office of the Auditor General of Canada and/or relevant senior officials....
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I think that that completely changes the essence of the proposal.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Maybe the mover of the amendment would have an opportunity to respond here. You will assume, in view of the new Financial Accountability Act, that this will come up on a regular, routine basis. Is that the assumption here?
4:55 p.m.
Conservative