Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 5th, 2006

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I just want to know the evolution of it.

[Paul LeBlanc]

Perhaps Monsieur Caron will respond.

[Fred Caron]

On the urban off-reserve...those developments have been more recent. In particular, there's a growing number of aboriginal students in urban schools, and so on. There were federal government programs that related indirectly to education, such as health, head start, the human resources development strategy, and so on. More recently, provinces have been trying to explore with us and build on some of the best practices they have to encourage better results for aboriginal learners.

So it's kind of in its infancy, and we're exploring ways to bring whatever relevant federal efforts there may be to help with that. But it's garnering increasing levels of provincial interest as those numbers become more significant.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you, Mr. Caron.

Mr. Blaney, please.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased that you are with us, Mr. LeBlanc. It is almost like you have a subscription to our committee. We will attempt to ensure that your work is beneficial.

In your brief, you mentioned that the gap between aboriginal students and the Canadian population in general was only 13 per cent: 56 per cent of aboriginal students complete their secondary education, in comparison with 69 per cent of other Canadian students, which is not so bad.

Do we measure the skills and knowledge acquired in school in the communities? Will this measure be taken into consideration in your action plan? It is important to ensure that the diploma has full value. I would like you to comment on that. Then we could talk about the models you are proposing. I would like you to talk about the experience with the Mi'kmaq. Is the experience positive? Perhaps there are links to be made.

[Line Paré]

As regards measuring the skills, in Quebec, for example, students who complete their secondary studies must sit a standardized Ministry of Education exam.

Our action plan talks about the strategy on performance indicators and our management framework. Of course, we must work with the first nations and identify performance indicators and aspects to be measured, and help them to develop and implement their performance measurement plan, including an evaluation of students' skills.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Are you talking about aboriginal school boards?

[Line Paré]

I am talking about first nations and schools on reserves.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Let's look, for example, at the Pakuashipi community in Quebec, which is a Montagnais community. Do the young people in these communities take the ministry's exam at the end of the year?

[Line Paré]

Normally, they take the ministry's exam, because most of these communities have high school diplomas. However, some communities, like Kitigan Zibi, do their own evaluations and award their own diplomas, which are recognized by the CEGEPs and neighbouring universities, like the University of Ottawa. That is under an agreement reached with the community several years ago.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Our research document from the Library of Parliament talks about the Mi'kmaq experience. You alluded to it. For some time now, you have succeeded in removing education from the Indian Act. What are the advantages of that for the schools we are talking about? Is the model advantageous? Do you intend to explore that avenue any farther? Is it beneficial for the children? Is the diploma rate higher, etc.?

[Line Paré]

One of the most important aspects for the Mi'kmaq in Nova Scotia is that it was the communities that really wanted to take responsibility for education. They can develop their own standards. They can establish standards for teachers. In recent years, we have seen an improvement in Mi'kmaq language and culture in Nova Scotia. The main organization worked very hard to support the schools in the areas of language and culture. Is that yielding results? Yes. The school belongs to them, and they are very proud of that.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

So you would say that we could draw on that model to...

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We're out of time here. I'm sorry, Mr. Blaney.

We will move on to the Bloc.

Mr. Lévesque, please.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Good afternoon, Mr. LeBlanc.

You give grants to school boards. Does this money enable the school boards to build their own on-reserve infrastructure and to provide the teaching? When these communities send their students to off-reserve centres to continue their post-secondary education, be it at the college or the university level, does the department continue to provide funding?

As far as I know, the First Nations University of Canada in Saskatchewan is the only first nations university. It came into being with the assistance of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Western Economic Diversification Canada.

Has the Indian Act evolved to such an extent that we could, for example in eastern Canada, build a university that reflects first nations culture, where the infrastructure, the training for professors, and the teaching provided would be funded by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development?

[Paul LeBlanc]

You are right that the department invests in First Nations or Inuit so that the leaders of these communities can help their students and members accede to a post-secondary education. This post-secondary education is done almost exclusively in provincial or territorial institutions, with a few exceptions, including the First Nations University in Saskatchewan.

That university was not created as a result of an obligation under the Indian Act. It was a specific discretionary initiative undertaken by the government of the day. If a government wanted to repeat this initiative, technically, it could do so if the initiative were consistent with its priorities and policies in this area.

Through its assistance program for post-secondary education, the department actively supports about 25,000 young aboriginals in pursuing a post-secondary education in almost all of the same institutions attended by other Canadians. The results are improving year after year.

Our information seems to indicate that there is a great need for this kind of support, which recognizes specific problems that young aboriginals must overcome and that helps them actively work and rise to the challenges they face. Often, they must move to attend university. So they experience huge changes, be they geographic, social, or family related.

The program has been quite successful, as there are about 4,800 graduates this year. Is that not correct, Ms. Paré?

[Line Paré]

More or less.

Another part of the post-secondary education support program makes it possible to assist post-secondary learning institutions, such as the University of Quebec network, to develop or adapt its courses to a first nations clientele, to provide training to professors or specific programs, and to provide social services as regards health care. This small component is provided under the department's post-secondary education support program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We are out of time in both senses, both for the questions and for the meeting.

What is the pleasure of the committee? I know we've had a short meeting here and I know there are may other questions we'd like to put forward. As far as our putting together further witnesses is concerned, I would suggest to the committee that maybe we spend an extra 15 to 20 minutes at the next meeting. Would that be all right with the committee?

So that would be on Wednesday--pardon?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Who are the witnesses on Wednesday?

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We have the Assembly of First Nations between 3:30 and 4:30, and then we have the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami between 4:30 and 5:30.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That's fine. I realize we're out of time, Mr. Chairman, but I'd like to give notice that at the next meeting I would like to move the motion on matrimonial property that we had before us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Okay. We also have a motion here from Mr. Lemay.

Do you want that to come forward at the next meeting also, Mr. Lemay?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yes. At any rate, it will have to be postponed to Wednesday, since I tabled it this afternoon, in accordance with the 48 hours' notice. I would like colleagues to familiarize themselves with it so that if they have any comments or questions to ask, they can contact me.

As for me, I have already put together a list of witnesses that I would like to hear from. I sent it to the committee clerk. Some colleagues should submit their own list as soon as possible, so that we can study it, so that we will not have to look at 42 different lists on Wednesday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We have that list and some suggestions and we are going to pass it out now, just so you can have a review of it.

There's one that's missing, which I have, and it'll be added. I'll make sure my executive assistant contacts you all with that submission.

Madam Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Given that there is a mixing up of terms in this presentation today, I wonder if we could just ask the department to send us the stats broken down. For example, educational outcomes in here talks about aboriginal educational outcomes. I don't know if we're talking about first nations and Inuit or if we're talking about aboriginals in the broader population.

I wonder if the department could provide us with a breakdown. They can just send it to us.