Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2007

[Chief Philip Einish]

We feel that Canada did not do its duty to protect our interests. This is one injustice, but don't forget, there was another injustice 51 years ago when the Canadian government moved us from what is now Kuujjuaq, where we had been situated back then, 51 years ago, and then we moved down to the inner part, the interior, where my people's paradise is. That's when the Canadian government promised, again, to move us to what was once Schefferville, the booming mining town. We were promised jobs and better education to better my people and to strengthen our lives, and that faded away too.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

In your presentation, you talked about having examples you could provide. So perhaps in the minutes that are left you could talk about some of the examples, about some of the concerns, about what you think might happen to your community if your people are not represented in negotiations.

[Chief Philip Einish]

Quite clearly, we will not survive, the way it has been, because of the economic aspects and degrading of first nation communities. I fear that my people will not be the same as they are today and in past years, because without the land itself....

The majority of our population is youth, and a lot of them still practise our traditional activities, and so forth. I'm envisioning the land. It's the land base for the survival of my people. We still use the traditional lands a lot, especially the young people who are coming up and representing the majority of our population.

If another injustice is done, this will lead us to disparity, despair, and so forth. Our nation has been struggling, and we always want to move forward and better our future. That's how we ask that we be looked upon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you, Chief.

And the last questioner is Mr. Bruinooge.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

You have seven minutes.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you very much.

I appreciate the commentary received so far from all of the witnesses. Perhaps I'll just start by mentioning that of course, when we talk about the long tenure of time where your requests have been put forward, we must remember that the former government had much of the time in the government offices--of course, that being the Liberal Party. But I think that is well known and it doesn't need to be stated again, although occasionally I like to state it on the record. It is a little disappointing, there's no doubt about that.

Perhaps I could work my way through your document here. You obviously made a number of points.

One of your first points is that the Naskapi tried to sign the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement, but they were not allowed to. Just for my own information, could you give me a small synopsis of why the Naskapi weren't allowed to sign that agreement?

[Dr. Paul Wilkinson]

I think you have to remember that the Naskapi were moved from the Fort Chimo area to the Schefferville area under the influence of the federal government in 1956. At that time, virtually no Naskapi spoke English or French, and no Naskapi had any level of education whatsoever.

So when the negotiation of the James Bay agreement started in the early 1970s, the older Naskapi, the mature Naskapi, spoke neither English nor French. They were living in Schefferville. As I recall it, at the time, radio service in Schefferville came from Corner Brook, so they knew what was happening, with no disrespect, in local hockey in Corner Brook, but they had no idea of what was going on in Quebec politics.

So the first year of negotiations with the Crees and the Inuit went ahead, and the Naskapi knew nothing about it. The agreement in principle for the James Bay agreement was executed in November 1975, and the Naskapi didn't know.

In any case, the agreement in principle only provided for the extinguishing of the rights of the signatories, the Crees and the Inuit. The Naskapi became aware of negotiations in early 1975, when they were visited by the Crees and the Inuit. The Crees and the Inuit each told them what was going on and asked if they would like them to represent the Naskapi.

The Naskapi decided to be represented by the Northern Quebec Inuit Association, even though they're Indians, even though they're closely related to the Crees. The Naskapi had for many years lived near and traded into Fort Chimo, so they had much closer links with the Inuit than with the Crees, so they decided to let the Inuit negotiate for them. And they paid them a significant amount of money for this.

As the deadline for signing the James Bay agreement approached, the Naskapi were advised that the Northern Quebec Inuit Association had done virtually nothing in exchange for the money that had been paid to get the Naskapi mentioned in the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement.

So at that time they actually began by hiring Robin. I came on board a little while later and they formed their own negotiating team. The agreement in principle of 1974 said that the final agreement had to be signed in November 1975, and there wasn't time to get the Naskapi into it, and the other parties were unwilling to delay the signing.

If you remember, the purpose of the James Bay agreement is to give certainty to the Government of Quebec and Hydro-Québec that they have the right to develop the territory. The governments didn't want to delay getting that certainty any longer than they could, so the Naskapi were left out.

[Robert Pratt]

Bill C-9, as it was called, was the federal legislation that gave effect to and brought into effect the James Bay agreement. The Naskapi, at that time, had engaged me. We appeared before the parliamentary committees and we opposed the adoption of Bill C-9 until we got written commitments from the Government of Canada, the Government of Quebec, the Crees, the Inuit, and the Société d'énergie de la Baie James, Hydro-Québec, to have an agreement similar in nature to that with the Crees. The Naskapi area, where they had hunting, fishing, and trapping rights, would be defined. We got the basic elements of a future treaty. At that point the Naskapi abandoned their opposition to Bill C-9, which was adopted by Parliament the following day.

As a result of those written commitments, the Northeastern Quebec Agreement was negotiated and signed following that.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

To follow up on that, much of the discussion we've been having has solely referred to governance issues in Quebec, but some of the Naskapi territory does extend into Labrador. Is a similar perspective taken with Labrador?

[Robert Pratt]

Naskapi, of course, have large ancestral hunting grounds in Labrador; however, they have not yet had their claim to Labrador accepted by the Government of Canada. It's strictly a funding issue: they haven't had the funds to complete the research to present an adequate case. They've been so busy with other matters that it's not a central issue.

They are not harassed in exercising their aboriginal rights in Labrador. They went to court on this issue. There was a hearing in Labrador City with respect to migratory birds. The crown, after hearing the evidence of the Naskapi and Naskapi elders, abandoned the case against the Naskapi. Since that time they have not been harassed by the game officials in Labrador.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

You have one minute.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

I'll go to another of your points. Based on the experience to date with the KRG, it is felt that the regional government will be overwhelmingly dominated by the Inuit for decades, and that they will discriminate against the Naskapi. Why do you believe that?

[Dr. Paul Wilkinson]

Kativik Regional Government has demonstrated over the last 20-odd years a pattern of discriminating against Naskapi interests. I'll give you two examples.

One is that they got a significant sum of money to establish parks in the part of Quebec north of the 55th parallel. There are some wonderful potential park sites in Naskapi lands. The Naskapi asked that at least one of these sites be approved as a park. The Kativik Regional Government said no. Why did they say no? It was because parks bring with them economic benefits. The Inuit made sure that the parks that were created bring benefits to the Inuit communities. There is one, Pingualuit, which was inaugurated about a week or 10 days ago. It is up near Kangiqsujuaq and brings benefits to the Inuit communities. The other, which is in an earlier state of development, is north of Kangiqsualujjuaq on the east coast of Hudson Bay.

The second example is that the Inuit were offered their version of la paix des braves. It is called the Sanarrutik agreement, which was signed in 2002 and to which the Kativik Regional Government is a signatory. That agreement grants to the Inuit economic development rights in Naskapi lands. Again, the Kativik Regional Government became a party to that, even though it was prejudicial to the interests of the Naskapi. As we said before, the Naskapi are one voice in 14 on the council of the KRG. A political party that has only 7% of the vote in any form of parliament doesn't have a whole lot of influence and doesn't have a whole lot of power.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you, Mr. Wilkinson.

With that, I need to bring this portion of our meeting to a conclusion.

I want to thank the witnesses who have appeared before us, and in particular I want to thank again the councillors and the director general, who have travelled to Ottawa today to be here with us.

I'm going to suspend briefly. I would ask Makivik Corporation to come forward; we'll try to do this shift in about two minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

If we could reconvene, we'll go through a similar process now. Basically we'll have about a 10-minute presentation, followed by probably one round of questions.

Could I ask those at the back of the room to take your conversation outside? I would appreciate that.

I would like to welcome, from the Makivik Corporation, two witnesses today, Harry Tulugak and Michael McGoldrick.

As I said, if you'd like to take about 10 minutes to make a presentation, either one of you or both of you, we will then go into a round of questions.

[Harry Tulugak, Negotiator, Regional Government of Nunavik, Makivik Corporation]

[Witness speaks in his native language]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the Makivik Corporation.

Right off the bat I'd like to make a correction. Coming from the dissident community of Puvirnituk myself, I can say there was an incorrect statement by our esteemed friend Mr. Wilkinson, where he said the dissident communities of Puvirnituk, Akulivik, and Ivujivik, when in fact it was Puvirnituk, Ivujivik, and half the population of Salluit.

Just at the outset, I'd like to make that correction, and also to correct the misstatement about Inuit government. In fact, it is a non-ethnic government. It's a public form of government that the people of Nunavik are aspiring to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you.

[Harry Tulugak]

My name is Harry Tulugak. I'm one of the Makivik co-negotiators for the agreement in principle that we signed in Quebec City just last week. Assisting me today is Mr. Michael McGoldrick, one of the resource persons. He supports Makivik negotiators.

In one form or another we have both been involved in the negotiations leading up to the agreement in principle since the early 1990s. For those of you who may be unfamiliar with the Makivik Corporation, it is the organization that represents the interests of the Inuit of Nunavik.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Monsieur Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Harry, could you please speak more slowly, for the benefit of the interpreters.

[Harry Tulugak]

I hope I can present my points.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Don't worry.

[Harry Tulugak]

Makivik is also the successor of the Northern Quebec Inuit Association, which was mentioned. It was the body that negotiated the Inuit section of the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement on land claims. The regional institutions established under the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement have jurisdiction over almost all of the Quebec mainland north of the 55th parallel, or roughly the top third of the province. It is a territory we call Nunavik, which I have seen to be officially recognized in the federal toponymy of the geographical maps of the electorate.

The only areas of this territory that are excluded from the jurisdiction of our institutions are the relatively small parcels of land that come under the authority of Cree or Naskapi governance structures. Needless to say, Inuit constitute the overwhelming majority of the population of Nunavik. It is also worth noting that with one exception there are only Inuit communities north of the 55th parallel. There are significant non-Inuit populations in some of the larger centres, but they reside in what are essentially Inuit communities. The only exception is the Cree community of Whapmagoostui, which coexists and is located next to the Inuit community of Kuujjuarapik in the southwest corner of Nunavik.

In this context it should be clarified that the Naskapi community of Kawawachikamach lies south of the 55th parallel. This relatively new community, which was built for the Naskapi in the 1980s in an area south of Schefferville, is not part of Nunavik. The Naskapi have an uninhabited incorporated municipality north of the 55th parallel, but it has no permanent residents. In stating this we also acknowledge that the Naskapi have traditional lands that extend north of the 55th parallel. They have clearly defined legal rights north of the 55th parallel, and in the not-too-distant past the Naskapi Nation did reside north of the 55th parallel.

Our presentation today will focus on the facts leading up to the signing of the agreement in principle for the creation of the Nunavik government. This will involve some complex issues that trace their origins to decisions taken 35 years ago when the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement was being negotiated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

I am going to have to interrupt for a moment.

I know that we're on page three of a 13-page presentation and we're more than five minutes in. I appreciate that you're reading slowly for the translators, but if there's a way....

I'm sorry, there were English copies only of the presentation provided to the chair and the staff at the front, so I do have a copy of this.

I'd like you to proceed, and I appreciate that you can't read quickly or the translators can't get it all, but if somehow you could abbreviate this, it would be appreciated.