Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 31st, 2009

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We have the time; we have until 11 o'clock.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Yes.

We'll go to Mr. Albrecht now for five minutes.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I may help Mr. Lemay and try to finish up some of his questions.

It's obvious, Mr. Chair and witnesses, that our government has had a significant interest in northern development. Not only in the recent past, but there was the announcement made to extend the SINED funding, the northern economic development agency has been announced, and also, as has been referenced, the announcement for funding for off-site training for large machine operators. I think these are all key components to improving the lives of aboriginal people.

I was also pleased with the opening statement, when you referenced the need for improving infrastructure and the regulatory environment.

One of the questions that Mr. Lemay raised earlier was the issue of the garbage. An issue that I've raised before at this committee is the question of whether there have been any studies done to look at the viability of the conversion of solid waste to energy. We know there's a pilot project currently occurring here in Ottawa where they're converting solid waste to energy. It does two things: it gets rid of the environmental contamination and it also produces energy for the grid. Has there been any discussion about the possibility of that? I understand that the volume of garbage may not be sufficient to bring one of these systems onstream, but as technology improves, it would seem to me that maybe there would be modular components that could really address this issue for the north.

[Patrick Borbey]

Certainly our colleagues at NRCan have invested resources in those kinds of studies. We have a small program within our department that allows the funding of certain projects in the area of eco-energy, so that's certainly something we can support in terms of some projects.

We also, through International Polar Year, funded one project that specifically looked at how wetlands management techniques used for waste can be applied in the north. Of course, waste water is also an important component of this whole issue.

There are some things that we can do from a scientific perspective and some modest programs where we can help to work with communities.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Part of the concern is the waste management. That's certainly a component. But the other component that became very clear to us when we visited Iqaluit last summer was the whole issue of the need for fossil fuels for energy. I just wondered what studies are being done in terms of alternative energy programs.

Does SINED simply accept applications for projects based on a group of entrepreneurs getting together and just adding on a project? Or is there some framework that would suggest that for this next couple of years we're going to focus on energy, or on X or Y? Or is it primarily the grassroots emergence of projects that would then be discussed and evaluated?

[Patrick Borbey]

SINED works on the basis of investment plans that are approved by the minister but developed jointly with the territorial governments, aboriginal organizations, and other organizations that are consulted in each territory. There are three investment plans that set priorities, and then there are broad categories, related to innovation, business development, and things of that nature, that are supported.

However, in the past we have supported projects that look at alternative energy and reducing dependency on fossil fuels. For example, south of Great Slave Lake, there is a hydro project called Taltson. There is excess capacity there. One of the projects we funded through SINED was a feasibility study to look at sending that electricity up to the diamond mine belt. That project was funded. I believe we put over $1 million into that project. Now, unfortunately, with the current downturn in the economy, that project is less feasible from a business perspective, but that's an example of where we can use SINED to help start these discussions.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Looking again at the vast geographical expanse of the north, which certainly is one thing that impacts anyone flying over the area, it would seem to me that a hydroelectric project, in contrast to a project that might use solar, wind, or other geothermal forms of energy.... Hydroelectric energy is great if it's close by, but transmission and all of that would be a huge issue. I guess I'm encouraging us to keep thinking about--and I'm not saying you're not--those local kinds of projects that would provide energy close to the end user.

[Patrick Borbey]

Yes, and there certainly are some possibilities.

There's a project in Iqaluit. They've been looking at ways of harnessing the tides to generate power. There's also a project in northern Manitoba that could bring hydro all the way towards the Baker Lake area of Nunavut. There's the Taltson project in the Yukon. Mr. Trudeau and his colleagues might be able to mention that when you see them on Thursday. There's an important project for improving the grid in the Yukon.

There are a lot of good projects up there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Borbey and Mr. Albrecht.

Now we'll go to Ms. Crowder for five minutes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just have a quick comment before I ask my question, because we didn't have time when we were concluding. You talked about how it's up to the environmental assessment folks to consider the impact on women. Many of us have been arguing for a number of years that gender-based analysis needs to be a horizontal initiative across all departments.

What we're finding currently is that the food mail program is suggesting dropping some key baking ingredients that women use to make bannock. I was talking to a group of women last week. They haven't been consulted on the proposed optional list of foods that could be dropped from the food mail program.

As well, on the environmental assessment on Baker Lake, as you are probably well aware, there's a very active citizens committee there that's talking about the impact on families of that proposed mine development.

Those are just comments around considering women when policy and development applications are considered.

I want to come to McCrank report. I know this was only done in 2008, but on the two key options that were recommended, option one says we'll require “a significant paradigm shift in thinking for all involved, and the transition may take some time”. I'm not going to go through all of this, because I only have five minutes. Option two talks about the restructuring recommendation, which would not include the discontinuation of the regional land and water boards. So there are two very different approaches, as you're well aware.

I wonder if you could comment on whether the department has taken a stand on which option they're interested in pursuing, what factors they are considering, and who they've consulted in that decision-making process.

[Patrick Borbey]

Before Mr. McCrank issued his report, people had a huge opportunity to comment and--

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I'm more interested in the post-report process.

[Patrick Borbey]

Since the report, we've received significant representation from industry, environmental groups, territorial governments, so a wide range of input, which has all been analyzed. It's part of the recommendations that are going to the minister in terms of how to move forward with Mr. McCrank's recommendations. That certainly will be part of the analysis in terms of the views of various stakeholders with respect to restructuring, and there are two options for restructuring there. Again, that's part of the recommendations to the minister.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Do you have any sense of when the decision will be made on that? What I'm hearing you say is that at this point there's not a public decision on option one or option two.

[Patrick Borbey]

No.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Do we have any sense of when that might be?

[Patrick Borbey]

Again, our minister is actively involved, and he needs to consult his colleagues.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

So don't hold my breath, in other words.

[Patrick Borbey]

I can't comment on cabinet processes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

When it comes to aboriginal economic development, my understanding is that's for on-reserve economic development.

[Patrick Borbey]

No. In the north, there are very few reserves, so the programming applies to all aboriginal groups.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

So all aboriginal groups in the north have access to the aboriginal economic development money, whether or not they're on reserve. That's good to know.

On the major projects management office, I understand that the way it works right now is it doesn't apply in the north. I've certainly heard some concerns from people in the south around the purpose of that major project management office. People are concerned about the fact that there's an appearance that it's being driven by development, rather than the needs of the first nations. I wonder if you could comment on the purpose of that office and tell us if there are any plans to expand it into the north.

[Patrick Borbey]

As I mentioned earlier, the Prime Minister did say there would be a satellite office established for the north.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

A satellite office, though--

[Patrick Borbey]

It would be designed to meet the needs of the north, which are different. As part of that office, there will be a need to build in the requirements for aboriginal consultations. That's part of the design we're currently looking at.