Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 31st, 2009

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I don't want a long history, but I wonder if you could give us a recent update of what the department's done to facilitate the northern pipelines within the last year. As you know, the Alaska Highway pipeline will be the biggest project in the history of North America, if not the world, and it happens to go through your territory, which means tremendous economic development opportunities. What's been done within the last year to facilitate that?

Second, of course, is the Mackenzie Valley. I know Anne McLellan announced $150 million for the communities, and we provided money to the aboriginal pipeline group that's part of it, but excluding that, what has the government done over the last year to facilitate progress on those two pipelines?

[Patrick Borbey]

There is a lot that has gone on, and there are additional moneys, as you know, through the most recent budget to continue the work to prepare for the Mackenzie pipeline. Minister Prentice has the lead on pipelines, and NRCan does play a key role with respect to the Alaska pipeline project. There are two competing projects. The folks at NRCan are organizing themselves, depending on which project will go ahead, so you'll have to direct that question to them.

We have worked with NRCan, however, and with the proponents to help fund a little bit of capacity development at the community level in the last year or so. We are certainly looking at continuing that through our aboriginal economic development programming.

In the case of Mackenzie, we continue to do a lot of pre-permitting and processing and getting our inspection services up and ready for a positive decision from the JRP. So there are some investments going on there.

We are continuing to invest with other departments in the science related to permafrost and other conditions.

The minister just announced yesterday further support to the Aboriginal Pipeline Group. We're hoping that other aboriginal groups will join.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

The one in the NWT or the Yukon?

[Patrick Borbey]

The Aboriginal Pipeline Group in the NWT.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

What about the Yukon one?

[Patrick Borbey]

I'm sorry, I'm not aware of any support that we've provided or any request that we've had for support.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Well, they've certainly requested $5 million.

[Patrick Borbey]

Okay, I can check on that. Probably that would be in another part of my organization.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I have another quick question on the implementation of land claims in the Yukon. Probably their biggest issue, in other words a nine-year review, was finished, and they are constantly complaining that INAC does not provide a negotiator with a mandate. Now we're in year 14, which is the time it takes someone to get through high school. Can you tell me the status of providing a negotiator with a mandate to finish the nine-year review, from five years ago, to implement the program service transfer agreement, the new ones?

[Patrick Borbey]

We worked jointly with Yukon and the first nations to develop three different chapters or reports out of implementation that came back under the terms of renewals. That work was completed about one year ago. The minister has since been considering his options in terms of going forward with the mandate. That's under discussion with his colleagues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Do you have a short question?

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Do you have any answer to the question I asked you at the transport committee last week about the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences, which cuts all this research money for scientists in the north?

[Patrick Borbey]

I remember the question, but I'm not really responsible for giving you the answer to that. I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. Now we will go to Mr. Payne.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing here today.

Talking about resource extraction in the north, certainly there have been some issues in terms of pretty heavy fluctuation in commodity prices, particularly in a downward area. That obviously has impacted not just the north but across the country as a whole. Maybe you could tell us what the department's current role is in terms of that extraction in the north and how it is likely to change with the new agency being involved.

[Patrick Borbey]

The department has overall responsibility for federal lands, but the actual recommendations through the permitting and environmental assessment process are done through the co-managed boards, for which the minister names the members but the aboriginal organizations also may name members, so they make the recommendations with respect to the conditions under which projects are going to go forward.

You're right, the current conditions are such that some of the proponents have slowed down their activities, slowed down their spending, or in some cases postponed the work on environmental assessment or permitting. We're hoping this is going to pick up in the future. We have, I believe, four or five projects that are currently in environmental assessment, so fairly well advanced, including the Mary River project in northern Baffin. Again, iron ore prices have gone down, but the quality of that resource is such that we think there will be demand in the medium-term future that will allow that project to go ahead. We just heard recently that the German government has extended an offer of a $1.2-billion loan guarantee to Baffinland, the company behind the project, which indicates that the German government has some level of comfort in terms of the future of steel and the future demand for iron to fuel their steel industry.

So we're hoping and watching very carefully, and we are also responding to any requests the mining companies may have in terms of some of the conditions under which they're currently operating, or their projects are operating. We're intervening with inspection. If they're slowing down, we have to send inspectors to make sure that fuel is not leaking, or that none of the infrastructure is just being abandoned on the site. We try to work with them as closely as possible.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Are there other projects you could update us on, or what's maybe being planned as well in the territories? I know with the economic situation it's maybe a little more iffy, but....

[Patrick Borbey]

There are over 30 projects on this list, but some of them are more advanced. We talked a little bit about the Meadowbank project in Baker Lake earlier on, which is fairly well advanced. The Kiggavik project is a uranium project with a company called AREVA behind it, which is a very large French organization that has activities across the world. Again, the price of uranium is expected to rebound. That project is well advanced.

Do you remember, Stephen, some of the others? There's Prairie Creek, which is in the southern Northwest Territories and is in the environmental assessment process as well. There are a number of projects in the Yukon that are progressing through that process as well.

[Stephen Traynor]

The key ones right now are particularly Meadowbank, which is moving forward, and Baffinland.

[Patrick Borbey]

We have one mine that's in receivership, and we're watching that very carefully. At this point, we haven't yet inherited the assets, but at some point we may if there's no buyer. We hold bonds, as I mentioned earlier, to make sure that any remediation that needs to take place there will be covered.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

In terms of the economic situation, has your planning changed at all in terms of how you're going to manage these projects or ensure that they continue forward?

[Patrick Borbey]

We still believe there's going to be a huge amount of work to be done, even with a slower pace and a smaller number of projects than we may have had a year ago. The system in the north was overwhelmed, frankly, up until the downturn. Think of the amount of work that's associated with each one of those, the investment that's going on in the north, the five environmental assessments going on in a territory that has a population of 100,000. It's huge. There's a huge amount of work. The slowdown will actually allow us to perhaps do a better job on a smaller number of projects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Payne and Mr. Borbey.

Mr. Gaudet, you have five minutes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I didn't hear the answer to a question that my colleague asked earlier. Who is responsible in the event of an environmental disaster? I thought it was the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada or Environment Canada. But you said that it was the community, and I didn't like that answer.

[Patrick Borbey]

It depends on the conditions in which a disaster of that kind might occur.

We have a protocol in place that involves the various federal organizations. Whether it's in the ocean or on land, there are differences with regard to the role that we play. The department plays a very important role, and we have inspectors. We would immediately send inspectors on site to ensure that the measures are taken by the organization that owns the assets, whether it be National Defence, a private mine or a community that, for example, has a sewer problem. We would nevertheless intervene.

Stephen, do you want to expand a little bit?