Evidence of meeting #22 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was provinces.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I know.
The government will be responding to the public accounts committee. I also have things to leave until the government responds, and I can't speculate where they'll come out on that.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
In your discussions with the provincial authorities or representatives and the aboriginal communities, what is the feedback you're getting from aboriginal communities?
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I have to say I haven't been around for all those discussions, but I have to say that some of the communities, where they have small agencies, are quite happy with the 6%. Now, the 6% is an average, so there are some above, but there are many below. Where there are small agencies, they are very keen on the new model because it provides them with sustainability. They do a five-year plan, so they're not dependent on funding that comes year by year and they can engage and recruit staff and they can retrain them. So the sustainability issue is huge for them to be able to offer quality services.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
In all your work—and this applies to Monsieur Roy and to Mr. Borbey again—in the minute or so that's remaining, or perhaps some night when you can't sleep and you wish to put your thoughts to paper, can you share with me how the concept of honour of the crown applies to your relations and your work on a day-to-day basis with the aboriginal communities?
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I don't think it's possible to have a short response to that, Mr. Chairman.
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
If I could—
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I will just say in a nutshell then that the honour of the crown is in front of us every day, as are the fiduciary responsibilities of the federal government in terms of how we work to achieve better outcomes for first nations and aboriginal people in the country.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In the context of negotiations with aboriginals, we really try to promote the interests of both parties, not to secure the greatest advantage for ourselves, as is the case in employer-employee type negotiations.
Conservative
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, Ms. Quinn, Mr. Roy and Mr. Borbey.
In July 2008, Quebec passed a new child protection law. For a number of months now, the first nations of Quebec have been requesting additional funding to help them adjust to that law.
Can you tell us where you stand in the negotiations with Quebec on this matter?
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Pardon me.
The first nations have requested a timeframe, haven't they?
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
They've requested assistance in adjusting to the new act in Quebec.
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We discussed this matter with the first nations and the Government of Quebec, but it's an act of the Government of Quebec. The federal government can do nothing with regard to the request for a timeframe.
However, I can tell you that there are four pilot projects, including two in the Abitibi-Témiscamingue region. The purpose of those projects is to reduce
the rate of children in care.
It's not an answer to the extension that's desired by first nations, but we're certainly starting to try to attack the issue of prevention.
We have been discussing with a number of provinces the new enhanced model about which I was speaking before. And in future months—or I can't say whether it will be next year—we hope, as we move from five provinces to ten, that when all provinces are under the new model there will be more funding for prevention services.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Are you telling us that the fact that the Government of Quebec has a Child Protection Act should exempt the department from certain expenditures? Do you have no provision to assist, for example, the first nations of Quebec in adjusting to that act?
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I would say it's not a discharge from expenses, but child welfare is the jurisdiction of the provinces. They do have the legislation, they do delegate the authorities, and they do set the standards. Where we come in is on funding the services, but we don't have a mandate for those services.
In terms of whether we should help fund the first nations in Quebec, we're talking to a number of provinces in addition to the three provinces where we have provided the incremental funding, and if there is incremental funding this will come out in a budget, in a future budget. At that point we would be able to fund the first nations so they can do more prevention services.
When the agencies can do more prevention services, then they will be better able to deal with the new law in Quebec that sets a mandatory timeframe before which children should be adopted. We're very much pressing on the prevention model because we know this will help, but we're not quite there yet in terms of the decisions or when any incremental funding might become available.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
So you're telling me that Quebec isn't one of the three provinces that are currently the subject of your study for possible supplementary funding.
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The three that exist, where we have agreements, are Alberta in late 2007--and we just started this model in 2007 with implementation--and Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia in 2008. There is money in Canada's economic action plan for two additional provinces. These haven't been announced. We would like to continue, if we can. There are many forces out there beyond us, but we would like to continue doing two provinces a year and, by our estimates, have the new model working by the end of fiscal year 2012-13 in all provinces.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
That means that Quebec will once again have to wait before it can obtain assistance so that the first nations can implement the act as planned in Quebec.
The Auditor General told us about seven essential factors in the implementation of her recommendations.
Those seven factors included:
- the importance of coordination among federal organizations delivering similar programs; - the need for meaningful consultation with first nations; - the value of developing capacity within first nations communities; - the importance of establishing first nations institutions; - the potential for conflicting roles of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada in its relations with first nations; - the necessity for an appropriate legislative base for first nations programs.
How are you monitoring those factors?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Monsieur Lévesque, we're really over time here, so put your question and then we'll get a brief response.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
How are you applying those factors in the implementation of those recommendations?
Director General, Social Policy and Programs Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Thank you.
Some time ago, the Auditor General did a very thoughtful report, as always, where she raised these seven factors that apply to all of the work across the department. We agree largely with these factors. In some cases, they affect one program area more than another. For example, on child and family services we don't have legislation. But in terms of building capacity and institutions and coordinating and providing prevention in programs, so that we don't end up with the result of not having prevention, that's exactly what we are working on with the provinces and first nation agencies, to develop these frameworks among the three parties.