Evidence of meeting #37 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tourism.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Very good. Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.
That will wrap it up. I must say, on behalf of all the members, we appreciate your attendance and time here and your input and responses. They were all very, very informative and they are going to be helpful in shaping our final report.
With that, we will suspend. Again, members, you're reminded that we are back here beginning at 6 p.m.
Mr. Bagnell, do you have a question?
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
A point of order. For committee members, if anyone's interested, the CKRW radio station is having its 40th anniversary celebration reception from five to seven tonight at the MacBride Museum, which is a block from your hotel. I think it costs $5 to get in, but if anyone's interested, it's on. I wanted to let you know.
Member, Board of Directors, Yukon Historical and Museums Association
It's free, Larry.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
It's free. It's the MacBride Museum. It's right on the waterfront, one block to the left. You hit the train station at the foot of Main Street, one block to your left.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
That's a great suggestion.
Of course, you're on your own for dinner between now and six o'clock. So go out and walk the wonderful Main Street here in Whitehorse. It's a great walk. I did it earlier this afternoon.
We're suspended until 6 p.m. Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Todd Russell
My name is Todd Russell, and I'm the vice-chair. I'm not Mr. Stanton. I'm much better looking than Mr. Stanton, and that will prove itself out when he arrives. I'm from Labrador, and I want to welcome you all to this session.
Certainly, we've had a very productive day thus far. We've heard from a lot of witnesses and there have been a lot of questions that we've addressed to various panel members. Tonight we'll go for an hour and a half. I'm sure all of you are aware of the time we have together.
We have with us Dan Curtis, executive director with Skills Canada Yukon; Andrew Finton is the founder of Sundog Carvers; from the Yukon Film and Sound Commission, we have Barbara Dunlop, commissioner; and Alex Furlong and Ron Rousseau are with the Yukon Federation of Labour.
I want to welcome you all here. The format is that each organization will have about five minutes for their presentation. We'll be a little bit lenient with the time, but we want to keep it to about five minutes, and then we'll open up the floor for questions, and there'll be five-minute questions and answers. When I turn to one of the members, the five minutes will be both for the questions and the answers.
We'll start with Mr. Curtis, if that's okay.
Go to it, sir.
Dan Curtis Executive Director, Skills Canada Yukon
I'd like to thank you for inviting me and my colleagues. That's wonderful.
I don't want to spend a whole lot of time explaining who we are. Hopefully you've already heard of the organization, Skills Compétences Canada. We are throughout Canada. I've given notes for everyone to give a bit of an overview, and I hope you'll have some questions about how we run, and I will answer them.
The national organization started in 1998 and we're in every province and territory across Canada, governed by a volunteer board of directors. We are a non-profit organization. We do this through interactive programming; events offered through our provincial-territorial member organizations; skills clubs, which I'll probably spend a little bit of time on today, when we get to the recommendations on what we're doing and how we're doing it; skills camps, with youth exploring trades; first nations career events; young women conferences; try-a-trade and try-a-trade interactive demonstrations; and Skills Canada competitions at a provincial, territorial, national, and of course international level. Hopefully you've all heard about or seen on TV the WorldSkills Calgary that we completed a couple of months ago. It was quite an event, and we're very proud of how Canada did, and the Yukon as well, because we had our first representative in Team Canada.
In terms of the competitions, the annual representation within the territorial and provincial competitions is 100,000 youth. It's important to mention as well that when we talk about youth, we're talking about youth up to 30 years of age. Some provinces do engage people a little bit older--35, even 40--but in the Yukon we're primarily up to the 30-year mark.
There are approximately 600 competitors at the Canadian Skills Competition, which is held somewhere different in Canada every single year. We expect between 5,000 and 7,500 visitors.
What makes the programs work are the dedicated individuals and volunteers throughout the Yukon communities. We're in a lot of the communities. There are very few where we don't have representation. We'd like to talk a little bit about that as well, when it comes to our recommendations.
Regarding the interactive elements, the sensory experiences, we find a lot of people we work with--they're of first nations ancestry--are really optical learners. They may not read or understand or really embrace the written word as much, but that's not to say they don't have a lot of skills and a lot of ability and capabilities and desire to learn various trades and business aptitudes.
The programs are relevant to industry and community needs. Again, that's something we'd like to talk about in our recommendations. We talk about relevance, not only to gainful employment but to the various regions in which we're offering the services. They can vary a great deal, as you can well imagine, not only across Canada, but across the Yukon territory. We find the relevance of what they want to do and what they need to learn to do that varies quite a bit, and that's why we'd like to talk a little bit about that in our conclusion, how we do that and how we would like to do more of that.
In terms of programming sectors, we at Skills Compétences Canada and Skills Canada Yukon have a set of guidelines that are industry-driven and relevant to the Canadian economy, and to the Yukon economy, of course. We have 45 different trades and technologies that we represent and rely on to keep this country going, in sectors such as construction, information, communication technology, manufacturing, service, and transportation.
What makes the skills programs appealing to youth? Obtaining practical experience, working with the community technical experts, meeting new friends and industry people, team work and problem solving, and tangible accomplishments, which we'd like to get back to you on as well, in terms of the measurable results we've had.
Skills Canada Yukon's skills clubs are really the lifeblood of what we've been doing and showing a lot of success in getting people engaged in trades and technology and into jobs and employment. With the interactive, hands-on, practical experiences and the cultural component.... I think something should be said about the cultural component--and I'm getting very close to our recommendations. We've found that the cultural component really engages a lot of our youth in the communities, because, keep in mind, a lot of the trades and technologies that are used in our country right now have been around for thousands of years, so a lot of the non-traditional trades do align quite well with many of the things we're doing today.
The cultural component is something that we have found really gets a lot of youth engaged and interested in staying with their education, and hopefully getting into more of a formative education when they're finished. They at least have a bit of a perspective of what it is they're getting into.
The ability to reach rural areas and form numerous ongoing skills clubs...most rural areas have been running for four consecutive years. Again, that's really, really important, because quite often, when going out to the communities, we find something that has happened for far too long: a lot of organizations or government bodies may come in and first explain what it is they're going to provide in the communities and not necessarily ask what the community is looking for, what it needs or is receptive to. And then it is not sustainable. That's a big problem, I think, in a lot of communities across Canada--something not being sustainable. When a program does come in, it may not be the one that's being asked for, required, or needed, and then it goes away.
And it's not money. It's not necessarily coming in with a whole bunch of cash and saying, “This is what we're going to provide”, because it doesn't work, quite frankly.
Executive Director, Skills Canada Yukon
The community consultative approach and the continuity and relevance is something I've talked about a little bit already. The community consultative approach means that when we have gone to the communities, some of them we've had to go to three or four times, just because there has been some history. But when we do get in and we find out exactly what that community is looking for and is really hungry for, we've had a lot of support and a lot of success, with people furthering their education into the trades. Robotics may not be something Ross River needs, if they need to heat their homes or keep the electricity on, or for a livelihood, for instance. So the relevance in that community is something we'd like to recommend, and it has worked.
Experimental learning opportunities, the hands-on approach.... We don't have a whole lot of prerequisites when it comes to our programs, but we'll go in, and it's more of a hands-on approach, to get people engaged, and that in itself works quite well.
We've talked to you a little bit about the cultural relevance.
The try-a-trade and interactive technology demonstrations have worked very well in our skills clubs.
The biggest thing that's come from my peers and my colleagues from around Canada when it comes to the rural communities like these is that a mobile training facility would be encouraged and desired and really well received. We don't have that, and we're finding that there are a lot of distractions in the larger centres. If we had that stay in the communities where people wished they were and where they wanted to stay, it would be a lot better received. I guess that's our biggest recommendation, and kind of a wish list, if we were to have some more mobile opportunities for our youth.
Barbara Dunlop Film & Sound Commissioner, Yukon Film and Sound Commission
Good evening. Thank you for inviting me.
The Film and Sound Commission is a branch of the Department of Economic Development of the Yukon government. We cover three general areas in our mandate: we support musicians and the development of the music industry in the Yukon; we support filmmakers who are taking on a managerial and ownership role in a film product--directors, producers, and writers; and we also market the Yukon as a film location for production servicing, and, directly relevant to that, we develop the crew base in the Yukon.
As I'm sure everybody is aware, the state of the film and sound industries has changed quite rapidly in recent years. Particularly with the Internet, distribution channels are changing very fast. Local Yukon filmmakers and musicians are struggling to keep up and struggling to work in the new world. At the Film and Sound Commission, we are also struggling to make sure our programs remain relevant.
Being in the north, distance is always considered an issue. As you can imagine, if you're down in Vancouver and you're a musician, you have a lot of opportunities to gig; you have a lot of opportunities for training and development of your career. Not so much in the Yukon. It's very expensive to travel anywhere and to get any kind of training. Similarly, it is a challenge for filmmakers to get training up here in the Yukon.
Accessibility of the Yukon for national and international filmmakers is sometimes perceived as a barrier. We like to think we're very close to Vancouver. We also like to think we're not that far from Los Angeles, but until you've been here, you don't really know how close we are. You might think we're a little bit remote. We don't have a film studio in the Yukon. We have some music studios so musicians can record up here. It's an ongoing challenge to maintain a large and robust crew base, and that is to do with employment continuity in part, particularly in the film industry. There are peaks and valleys. Productions come and go, and it's hard to keep a crew working all the time to keep it in the industry.
Some of the solutions we work with on an ongoing basis are funding programs within the Film and Sound Commission. We have two that are focused on music. One is the sound recording program, and that provides financial support to Yukon musicians to cut a CD so they can use it as a saleable product and also as a marketing piece. We have four funds for our filmmakers. Three of those are focused on Yukon filmmakers and take them right from the beginning of their careers up to and including production of a feature film or a dramatic series. We also have a fourth film funding program, and that is our location incentive. We provide a rebate for people who come into the Yukon and use Yukon labour on their film productions here. We put resources toward training and marketing and also developing our filmmakers.
We work very closely with industry organizations. We have MusicYukon, the Yukon Film Society, and the Northern Film and Video Industry Association, and we try to keep in touch with what they're looking for and what their membership needs to develop their careers and make sure our programs meet that.
I'd like to share some examples of things we have worked on in the past to help develop the industries overall. We have worked with the federal government in collaboration with some of the programs. We attend the Banff World Television Festival on an annual basis. We have a jury process where we take six Yukon filmmakers. We have a mentorship component and a workshop component leading up to that, to help them have an appropriate product to pitch to broadcasters while they're at Banff. We also support them while we're at Banff.
Last year we supported the Yukon Film Society and the Northern Film and Video Industry Association in the mise en scène and crew workshop series. That was a parallel series of workshops for producers, writers, and directors, who are above the line, or managerial people with the financial and creative control over the production, and parallel to that stream, we had workshops for people who were interested in being crew members on a film set. At the end we adjudicated three short dramas into the program, and the crew came and worked on them and the writers, directors, and producers actually produced the film. So at the end we had a bunch of crew people with a credit to their names and experience and some training, and we also had three sets of writer-director-producers, who actually had a calling card they could use for marketing. It was a great experience.
Showcase Yukon 2009 was aimed at our music industry. We brought a number of buyers from around North America and I believe one from Europe. They had an opportunity to see Yukoners perform and they gave them some critiques. A number of the Yukoners had opportunities to perform at various festivals and venues around North America because of that experience.
We're currently working on something called Film Fantastic, which is a concept development workshop. It is aimed at our writers and producers, and it is to help them understand story structure, development of concepts, and how to pitch those concepts to the people with the money who will be able to back their project. That was supported by the Community Development Trust.
I should just go back to the mise en scène and the workshop series. That was supported by the TIP program, the targeted investment program, through INAC.
Coming up, we're just getting under way with what we're calling a webisode series, which will end up being 13 one-minute commercials for filming in the Yukon, but it's primarily a training opportunity for Yukon filmmakers. That was very strongly supported by the community adjustment fund. We will call for concepts from Yukoners for the 13 episodes. They will each feature a different area of the Yukon and a different season of the Yukon as a film location, and there will be a dramatic thread linking the 13 together. So there will be a variety of things we'll be able to do to place them after we're finished.
Looking to the future, MusicYukon, which is our music industry association, is interested in putting in a bid for 2011 for the Western Canadian Music Awards, and it would be the first time that event came north of 60. We think that may in fact be an opportunity to collaborate with you as well.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you, Ms. Dunlop.
We'll carry on now with Mr. Rousseau and Mr. Furlong from the Yukon Federation of Labour.
Just before you start, I offer my apologies to all of you that we were a little tardy in getting here for the commencement of our third panel here today, and also my thanks to my vice-chair, Todd Russell, for getting under way promptly at six o'clock.
Who would like to...? Mr. Furlong, you'll take it away? Thank you very much.
Alex Furlong President and Chief Executive Officer, Yukon Federation of Labour
Yes, I will, thank you.
I want to thank you on behalf of the federation and affiliate members here in the Yukon for the opportunity to present on what we perceive to be obstacles to economic development in the north, particularly here in the Yukon.
We represent 4,000-plus members, and we're also a charter member of the Canadian Labour Congress, representing 3.2 million workers in Canada. Yukon is the westernmost territory of Canada located north of the 60th parallel. To the south we have the province of British Columbia; on the western border we have the state of Alaska; and to the east we have the Northwest Territories. It stretches to the north all the way to the resource-rich coast of the Arctic Ocean. We are home to approximately 26,000 people, and most of that population—23,000 or so—resides in the city of Whitehorse, the capital city. We're scattered over several small rural communities such as Haines Junction, Dawson City, Mayo, Watson Lake, Carmacks, and Ross River.
The vast majority of aboriginal people live in communities other than Whitehorse. There is a stark difference in living conditions between Whitehorse and the small communities. It's easily visible to the casual visitor. It's not as well documented as it should be. Statistics Canada does not do extensive research in the Yukon or any of the northern territories, due to a lack of resources. The economy has for the past several years been based on public services and to a lesser degree on tourism. The territory has a long and well-documented history of resource extraction, and this aspect of the economy has been relatively dormant over the past 20 years or so. However, it is showing signs of renewed vigour, with the price of commodities reaching record highs.
The biggest obstacle to healthy and sustainable economic development is the persistent frontier mentality, which has—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Mr. Furlong, if I could just interrupt you momentarily, could you just keep the pace a little bit slower for the purposes of our ongoing interpretation here? If it takes a couple of minutes longer to do your presentation, we'll afford you that extra time.
Go ahead.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Yukon Federation of Labour
Okay. That's my Newfoundland heritage getting in the way.
Thank you.
The biggest obstacle to healthy and sustainable economic development is certainly the persistent frontier mentality, which has produced a cycle of boom and bust that started in the latter part of the 19th century with the fur trade industry and was followed by several waves of mining activity in the earlier part of the 20th century. Aboriginal people in particular, whose only home is the Yukon and who have resided in the Yukon from time immemorial, have sustained wave upon wave of colonial incursion on their traditional territories while receiving next to nothing in benefits from the wealth being extracted from their lands.
As of 2009, first nations people, Métis, and Inuit in the Yukon, by and large, live in poverty. The rate of unemployment is two to three times greater than the national average, and they suffer from conditions reminiscent of countries in the Third World. So if we are to embark on a new wave of economic development in the north, it is imperative that we do so with an eye on history and put in place the mechanics that would prevent the old pattern from happening again, where wealth is pumped out of the local economy with little to show for it when the boom is over but massive environmental and social damage that no one is willing to take responsibility for.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Perhaps you'd go a little slower yet, if you don't mind. You have a lot to say there. We want to hear it all. It will be good for those who are listening in the other official language as well, so take your time.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Yukon Federation of Labour
Okay.
The YFL, as an organization concerned with the rights and welfare of workers and the communities they live in, does believe in sustainable development that will bring real jobs for local people as a priority. This means that all and any plans for industrial development in the Yukon must include full consultation and partnership with first nations and central bodies representing aboriginal people. It is central to any plan that these partnerships include a clear road map to achieve local employment targets at all levels. This means that it's not acceptable to set local workers in low-skilled jobs, low-paid jobs, just to show that employment is taking place. Employment equity must be demonstrated at all levels.
It's also of prime importance that the principle of prior and informed consent, as per the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, be adhered to when approaching any activity that takes place on land of first nations and other aboriginal groups.
Furthermore, we'd like to impress upon the committee members that immediate measures need to be taken by the central government to fund programs designed to bring aboriginal peoples in the Yukon out of poverty. Otherwise, there is little hope that the citizens of first nations will be able to reach the capacity needed to fully participate in the next wave of industrial development here in Yukon.
In a brief presented to the parliamentary standing finance committee in October of 2009 in Yellowknife, the regional executive vice-president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada, Jean-François Des Lauriers, called for transfer payments to the Yukon to be immediately increased by 20%, with the increased funding aimed at food subsidies, housing, and health and social services.
Please take the time to review the companion document that provides some background figures on living conditions in the north.
I want to point out to you, as I mentioned earlier in regard to Statistics Canada, that some of these figures that are the most recent we could obtain date back to 2007, so you'll see the disparity.
You may note that the figures for Yukon are not as dramatic as are those for the NWT and Nunavut. It's important to keep in mind the caveat that we referred to in our fifth paragraph. As I said, the statistics are skewed by the disproportionate size of the population in the Yukon capital.
I want to thank you again for taking the time to travel to the Yukon, and I hope this is only the start of a comprehensive dialogue on the issue of northern development. The YFL extends an invitation to the committee to keep the lines of communication open in the future, as we see continuing consultation of all stakeholders as a vital part of a sustainable approach to industrial development.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you, Mr. Furlong. I appreciate that.
We'll go to our final presentation, and that is by Mr. Andrew Finton. Andrew is from Sundog Carvers. I don't know if any of you have had the chance to go down the street here to Hougen's, but on the lower floor you can see some of the works there, and they're marvellous.
Mr. Finton, you have the floor for five minutes.
Andrew Finton Founder, Sundog Carving Program, Sundog Carvers
Thank you.
I apologize. I did bring documents; unfortunately they're only in English. But there are some there if later you want to look at them.
We are a non-profit organization. We started five years ago with funding through the federal government, through Service Canada, on a very small pilot project. We're basically still sort of in a pilot phase. We've expanded. We run an initial beginner project for students; it's an 11-month program, and it's basically starting with the basics of our first nation artwork. We start with nine students, and it's 11 months full time.
After a couple of years of running that, we realized it wasn't nearly intensive enough, so we extended it. We went to the territorial government and got funding for a three-year advanced program. Again, it's three years, full time, 30 hours a week, and it's 12 months of the year. We've been running that program now for about two and a half years. The third partner we have that helps support the program is the first nations governments. At present we have about 24 full-time students and 10 part-time students.
A third program that we developed a couple of years ago was with the public schools. A couple of the principals came to us and asked if we could start teaching the traditional carving within the public school system, so we also do a small program with public school students. Last year we had around 20 or 24 students at all times who we're working with.
We're not only an art program. I think the one thing that distinguishes us from Emily Carr, for example, is that we try to offer wraparound service. The program through Service Canada that we get our funding from initially is for youth who have multiple barriers to employment. So we're not getting high school graduates who have straight As who want to have a career in art. Most of our students are not graduates and have a variety of other barriers to being successfully employed. We employ a full-time counsellor; we have addictions counsellors who work with us. We have some training in business, and we also do a fair bit of work in the social issues, in terms of housing issues. So we try to offer a wraparound service as well as the art.
In terms of some of our accomplishments, this summer we took a group of 19 students on the land for 70 days and built a 30-foot canoe. It was well documented in Whitehorse—there's a video on the Internet if you want to see it. It was quite an accomplishment for our students. The other thing is that in our shop downtown, which anyone is welcome to visit—it's open Monday to Friday—we presently have two of our senior students who have been with us now for four years, and they're working on about seven-and-a-half-foot totem poles that were commissioned by a gallery in Toronto. They're both commissioned for $10,000 a piece. So the artwork that our students are doing is not arts and crafts; we're not making dream catchers. They're doing substantial artwork.
As I said, we're still, in some ways, a pilot. We're still struggling for funding. In the context of the Auditor General's report that came out last year that said approximately 60% of first nations students aren't graduating, the question is, what are those students going to do? Without grade 12, it's hard to move too far forward. I think the cultural industries represent a unique opportunity. It's an unimpeded opportunity for people of first nations background to be, one, financially independent, because there is a good living to be made from first nations artwork; and second, it offers a preservation of the traditional arts and crafts. At the same time, it offers pride through awareness of their rich cultural heritage.
I could talk for days about the accomplishments. As the chairman said, I think the artwork speaks best for itself, so if you have time, the Arts Underground has a great display of both our beginner and our advanced artwork.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you very much, Mr. Finton.
Now, as the vice-chair explained, we're going into the second part of our meeting, which is questions from members. There are five minutes for both the question and answer, so please keep your questions and responses succinct so that we can get through more material in the short time we have here.
With the first round, we'll begin with Mr. Russell for five minutes.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good evening, again.
I was just thinking as you were going through your presentations, and this is kind of a paradigm shift for us as a committee, that it feels as though each of you, in your own way, is tearing down barriers to economic development and building something, whether it's on an individual basis or a group basis, or from an advocacy perspective from the Federation of Labour.
What are the messages you want us to take? Mr. Curtis, you were talking about a mobile unit that would go around. That's advocating for something that solves a barrier of location or geography and makes things more accessible.
I'm fascinated by the Sundog Carvers pilot project. It seems like something we might want to have a little bit of a greater look at, because there seems to be teaching in it that could be given to other areas across the country. I'm sure there are some similar programs, but that one probably has some uniqueness to it that the others can learn from.
As a committee, we don't want to create something that doesn't exist, because you ask, what are the barriers?
From the Sundog perspective--I want to focus on that for a second--coming from your experience and from the arts community, the film industry, what would be your recommendation to us?
We have some recommendations as well from the Federation of Labour, which is quite a strong document. It certainly talks about the aboriginal situation here in the Yukon, and we've heard from many aboriginal witnesses as well.
Maybe I'll ask for one recommendation from each of you. We have one or two from the Federation of Labour.
Let's look at it from a positive perspective.
Film & Sound Commissioner, Yukon Film and Sound Commission
I think we have worked well with the federal government in terms of some of your northern economic development programs. The ones that have been successful for us—the mise en scène workshop program for film crews being a good example of that—have been where we've worked with our industry organizations and with the members of those industry organizations on the ground to identify what their hopes, dreams, and aspirations are and where they think government can step in and support them in the development of their career, and then we've had an opportunity to work with INAC and decide how it can support, how we can support, and allow there to be as much grassroots flexibility as possible in the rollout of the program.
What I personally have found in the past is that in the programs we've been working with, where the film and sound commission has undertaken some of those projects, they've worked very well. In fact, the folks at INAC have been very supportive, and we feel we've had a big success.
Founder, Sundog Carving Program, Sundog Carvers
As I said, our project is still a bit of a pilot project. In the document we produced this summer, we were talking about the next steps and what they are. What we identified is that the Northwest Territories has done a very good job in terms of developing soapstone carving as a cultural industry, or at least as part of that; it's become a big industry over there. The last document I saw said that the Northwest Territories alone has about $13 million coming in from soapstone carving.
So I think the potential is there. In the Yukon, it's a much fuller artistic background. Not only is there the woodcarving, which is what we took off with as a pilot, but there is the beadwork, the leather work, the drum making, the jewellery making, the printmaking, etc.
So one of the things that we and our board have worked on is a vision of what we could do if we had the resources. What we see is that you would have a cultural school. That would be training, so people could have jobs. Right now, as I said, we have 24 full-time students. We basically turn people away every week because we don't have resources. We don't even really have the resources to deal adequately with the students we have. For example, we have a business trainer who helps each of the students develop a business plan, a bio, and a portfolio. I think we have him for two hours a week and we have 24 students.
In order for this to evolve to the next phase and go beyond a pilot, I think what we need is a larger facility so that we can make it available to maybe 125 students instead of 25.
What's really unique in our program is that we have students who have graduated.... I can think of one of our students who graduated from F.H. Collins who is illiterate. He can't read or write. He graduated with a leaving school diploma. Last year, we were connected with a company out of Toronto called the North West Company. When the buyer was here from Toronto, he saw a panel that this student had made. It was a 32-inch panel, circular, with a design on the front. It was called “Eclipse”. It has a sun and moon facing each other. It had already sold for $1,700, but he ordered two so that next time he came up.... Basically, he commissioned two.
So the art industry is uniquely--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
We're really well out of time at this point.
I appreciate that.
We'll carry on.
The second member to have the floor in this first round is Mr. Lévesque.
Mr. Lévesque, you have five minutes.