Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2009

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Go ahead.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, twice today, I heard that the federal government does not have any good employees.

I heard the same thing when I visited western Canada on farming matters. Western farmers told us that civil servants in Ottawa did not know the difference between a cow and a carrot.

Is it the same for you? When you call Ottawa, do they know about the area and what happens here?

We heard that comment from people in western Canada, in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Vancouver, British Columbia. People in those three provinces told the members of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food that the civil servants in Ottawa know nothing about agriculture.

Has your experience been the same?

[Rick Karp]

No. I think the people working in INAC--CanNor now--have a strong desire to understand and do understand our needs. For example, we have traditionally had three programs supported by INAC, now CanNor, to the tune of about $400,000 a year. The frustration comes out locally when trying to deal with Ottawa, in that the applications at that level have to get certain approvals and there are delays. Here we are in November, we have three programs that we're working on, and we're still waiting for the funding. So the chamber--we're a small organization, and we do not have $400,000. Here it is in November, the year started April 1, and we don't have any money. We have zero funds to run this business development program, which has been very successful and partnering for success. So the chamber is down to the tune of around $60,000 to $70,000 trying to keep these programs going.

Do the local people have an understanding of our needs? I think so. They listen well to us. Are they frustrated with Ottawa? I think so. We're very frustrated with Ottawa. I've called Ottawa several times with CanNor to try to make some reasonable suggestions about timelines--funding timelines, approval timelines. I haven't had any word back from them.

It could be another recommendation for the committee as you delve into CanNor in more detail. Please get those funding timelines. When someone has an approval for a project, they need to get that approval and the money, because most of us cannot function without having that money come forward.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

As for seasonal work, how many weeks do your employees work during the year? Is it 10, 12, 14, 16 weeks?

[Rick Karp]

The tourism season starts at the end of April, very beginning of May, and it goes to the middle of September, the end of September at the very latest. So May, June, July, August, September, five months in tourism.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

In tourism.

How long do they work in all other seasonal jobs?

[Rick Karp]

The construction industry, again, as soon as they can get in the ground. So here, for example, we don't put any flowers in the ground until the middle of June. Otherwise the ice is still there. But the construction industry will start up in April and they'll go as long as they can. So even right now, as long as you can close in a building, you can continue working. But again, there's considerable seasonality. You can't start any construction once the ground freezes. It's very, very difficult and very expensive. So it would be probably an additional month or two, so seven months, perhaps eight months, for the construction industry.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Gaudet.

Now, it's over to Mr. Bagnell for five minutes.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I have three quick questions. Before I do, though, I'm interested in your commenting on mailings from Mr. Strahl. I'm surprised you didn't comment on the one on VIA Rail, the great job he's doing there; it's pretty important to the Yukon.

I have three quick questions. One is we're looking at ways we can help business. You run the Business Service Centre and you have businesses coming in. What types of things are they asking for, that the federal government can help with? That might give us a key as to what people are looking for when they come to your door looking for help and assistance and information.

I'll ask all three questions and then you can answer three.

Secondly, you're members of the Yukon Chamber of Commerce. Because no one else could make it, could you tell us any comments you have on the big challenges facing rural Yukon? Some of those challenges may be different from those in Whitehorse.

The third question is related to housing. One of our other presenters showed us a chart on shelter that said Canadians on average spend $13,643 a year. In Yukon, it was $14,058. So the difference was only $415 a year on housing. It doesn't seem like a huge disparity between the Canadian average on that. Maybe it's the occupancy rate that's different. I'm not sure.

[Rick Karp]

Is that a rental you're talking about?

[Richard Runyon]

Can we start with the housing one first?

Essentially, for the business, the private sector here, we're blue collar business. An example is Dan at Canadian Tire. He wants to bring up a manager here but the situation is that the median housing price here for a home is $350,000. So the struggle is, if he brings up a medium manager, the guy's going to live in a trailer. So it's difficult for him to attract people coming up here, given the housing situation and stuff like that. We don't really have any entry level housing. That's the problem here. We've got a lot of higher-end housing, so if you've got a government job or two government job incomes, you know, there's lots of housing. But for the lower end we don't really have housing.

Hopefully that answers your housing question.

[Rick Karp]

I'm not sure what the $14,000 refers to.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Basically it's suggesting what a Canadian household in the Yukon spends is almost the same as what the average in Canada is for their housing expenses.

[Rick Karp]

The average rental for an apartment right now is $775 a month in the Yukon, if you can get one. The occupancy rate is very low. That's another thing. We're working with the Yukon government on bringing back the act that deals with the apartments and the rentals. So we'll see what happens with that.

For your other two questions, the Business Service Centre, which is the Yukon Chamber of Commerce, not the Whitehorse Chamber of Commerce, is very interesting. We've sent people over there. It happens, though, to be a library of hard copy. One recommendation would be, of course, to have Canada Yukon or Canada Business Service Centre system across the country use more modern technology. When you send people in there now, they're basically left on their own to look through this library and try to find things. It's not as functional as one would hope it would be, especially for somebody who is wanting to start up a new business.

On the challenges of rural Yukon, I suppose Richard might be able to answer that better with the first nation component. We've been working through our business development program with a couple of businesses in Dawson City and formed a partnership with them and the first nation in Dawson City. Their challenge of course is distance from market. One is a manufacturer. One is in tourism. One manufactures anoraks, and if you're interested in a winter coat, it's fantastic. The other is in tourism. So the challenges in rural Yukon.... I've talked with the people in Old Crow. Imagine the opportunity they have there to see 130,000 caribou marching by you. The tourism, if there was marketing that allowed them.... They do have some people that go up there just to experience that. It's really something.

There are considerable challenges to business in rural Yukon. We're covered on the Internet, but distance and location are still serious problems for them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, we'll leave it at that.

We'll maybe just come back. Mr. Runyon, at one point you had something else to add there and we had to move on. Did you want to come back to the point that...?

[Richard Runyon]

Mr. Russell inquired with regard to first nations, and in answering his question, if your desire is to see guaranteed development in the first nations, then increasing their funding directly.... I know for a fact the first nations that are self-governed would very much like to see that occur, particularly with things like Canada infrastructure and stuff like that.

To give you a two-second example of that, in Carcross, they wanted to get the women working there but they didn't have any day care. So the first nations used their first nations money to build a day care centre so that they could get their women to start working in the community. It would be easier for them if they could get some other financial assistance. To make that happen a lot faster is what it comes down to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay.

Are there any other questions?

Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

I just wanted to make Mr. Runyon aware that four funding programs implemented in Canada's economic action plan have in fact gone directly to a number of first nations across the country. In our riding it's been particularly important, because we have ensured that first nations play a full and integral role in a regional economic development strategy. So just for the record in that regard, outside of the traditional INAC and HRSDC agencies or departments who have traditionally been the stalwart funding organizations for them, we have in fact done a great job looking in other programs, particularly through this year's budget with respect to the infrastructure stimulus fund--R-in-C in particular, and I must say CAF, the community adjustment fund. And we've heard testimony to that effect today.

I think the comments I hear from a number of the first nations communities across the country, but particularly across northwestern Ontario, is that they're very excited about being considered in these funding programs directly, as you say. And as we know, to encourage a sense of regional strength and recognizing the important contributions that a community can make to a fuller and more developed economy in its respective region....

We have a number of initiatives in forestry and tourism that I think, in particular, recognize the importance of not just the federal government's roles but the territorial and in my example the province's responsibilities with respect to tenure and dealing with forestry--a variety of issues like stumpage and what not--that make sure and consider that first nations are full participants in that process.

That's all I want to say.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay.

Any other comments to Mr. Rickford's?

[Rick Karp]

I'm not sure if it's been clear during the day today, but Yukon of course with devolution and Yukon with 11 of 14 first nations who have settled their land claims creates a unique situation in trying to achieve economic development and partnerships among all of those partners.

I think in the provinces it's probably...well, I shouldn't say it's easier, but we're dealing with 11 separate governments in the first nations plus the Yukon government, plus the federal government, plus municipal governments. So in your consideration of that, please remember the difference between the Yukon and the other territories.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford, Mr. Karp, and Mr. Runyon.

We will finish up our questions on that point. We will dismiss and adjourn here momentarily, but just before we do, there are two administrative items that we need to remind members of. The first is that you know that we're going to visit the Kwanlin Dun First Nation here in Whitehorse tomorrow. They are one of the group of four first nations that are not in fact part of the coalition of four, as they say.

They have circulated to us a letter and a schedule for tomorrow. The problem is that the schedule they have circulated is only in English. There is one here for each member. We recognize that our rules are such that we only circulate documents in both official languages. I'm cognizant of the fact, however, that tomorrow's agenda really is a site visit and not a formal meeting.

Is it acceptable to the committee members that we circulate those now? I guess I'm really directing my attentions to our committee members from the Bloc. If this is acceptable, we'll go ahead and do that.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

As far as I'm concerned, it is just a schedule of the visit, and I do not see it as an official document submitted to the committee for consideration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. Merci beaucoup.

Go ahead, Larry.