Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you for that.

Let's go to Mr. Clarke.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I thank the witnesses for coming in so early.

The question I have is on funding. How much money was allocated for the northern territories and Yukon? I see some funding numbers here for first nations projects.

When Mr. Austin was speaking, I think he said some of the communities had no money to help with the funding of programs. How much money do the first nations get? Can you break down some of the projects that SINED has sponsored?

[Dr. Harvey Brooks]

We don't have full details with us today, but we can provide you with what's happened in the past number of years. We're willing to provide this as a written response at a later time.

In general, the SINED has been a $90-million program over five years. It gets allocated between the three territories, and there is some administrative overhead taken off for the federal government to administer the program. Then there are some agreed- upon priorities from the various jurisdictions. We work with the federal government to understand each other's priorities, and the first nations are high on the priority list. They would be eligible for much of the funding. We will undertake to provide a full accounting of what has taken place and an indication of where the first nations are in the priority list.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You mentioned the permafrost melting and some of the water and sewer lines starting to break. Can you break it down? How much has Yukon received from Canada's economic action plan? What projects right here in town have benefited?

[Dr. Harvey Brooks]

We're still in the process of approvals for many of the proposals that have been put forward. We've accessed some money from the federal program for the Mayo B hydro project, and that is in the neighbourhood of $70 million. There's some Building Canada funding that we are after. We have been successful in some cases, but in other cases we are still waiting for approvals.

With regard to the community adjustment fund, we're hearing that some of the projects are moving forward, but we are not sure whether they have received full approval yet. With the recreational infrastructure program, we are still waiting for some formal approvals.

Like the rest of Canada, we are in various stages of approvals. Some projects have been approved, and on those we're on the ground and building, moving forward as fast as we can. On others, we are still waiting to hear the final result of the various proposals that have been put forward.

We've been actively involved with the CanNor people—and the INAC people before that—to ensure that we're in the queue and that they fully understand our priorities and opportunities.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You mentioned that some of the projects have started. What has been started here in Whitehorse?

[Dr. Harvey Brooks]

We have a number of projects on the go that will have some form of federal government involvement in them.

At the top of Two Mile Hill, you would have seen the new fire hall program that's on there. I believe the airport may have some funding for the airport expansion, which was required to meet the homeland security requirements for an international airport, specifically to allow direct flights from Frankfurt to come in, so it's very, very important for us.

In terms of some of the municipal projects, I'm not sure, but there was certainly some housing money. You would have seen some housing complexes. I'm not sure if you had a chance to drive around Whitehorse, but clearly there are some low-income housing programs on the go, and they will have a very busy agenda over the wintertime here, not just in Whitehorse, but throughout many of the communities in Yukon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll get a chance to do that tomorrow. We have most of the morning through to the early afternoon in and around the capital here. We look forward to that as well.

Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

It is now Mr. Gaudet's turn for five minutes.

Mr. Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was listening to your opening remarks earlier, and you mentioned a labour shortage. Mr. Austin and Mr. Holmes also mentioned it, and Mr. Brooks said that there was a highly skilled workforce.

How is it that you do not have enough workers? Do local communities have programs to support your work?

[David Austin]

From a city standpoint, of course, and from a Yukon municipal standpoint, we do have a lot of skilled people, but with the number of projects going on, there are still not enough skilled people to go around. We're constantly looking outside the Yukon. I still say “the Yukon”; I've been here for 37 years and I'll continue to say it.

We continue to look outside Yukon for skilled help. We have programs on the go that try to encourage people to come here. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Not everybody wants to work and live at what is sometimes forty below zero; it's always a difficulty for us.

I'm currently involved in a program right now where we're trying to provide employment for underemployed and under-skilled Yukon youth. We're finding it difficult to find those people to fill that program. I hate to say it, but sometimes there's too much money to go around for these programs.

It's going to continue to be a problem to find all the people we need for employment in the north. It's that simple.

[Dr. Harvey Brooks]

If I may add to that, many of the projects we're looking at require very specific skills, particularly in terms of mineral development. Some of those skills you can train for and be ready for, and we have the Yukon Mine Training Association that has a program here for certain aspects of mine development.

We will be hiring local people. This is critical, because for many of our rural areas this is the only economic development--or one of the major prospects for economic development--they can expect. But for highly skilled people, just like anywhere around the world, they look for already skilled and experienced people, and we do need some of those people.

Having said that, I'll note that we also need people of various skill levels. We have been very successful in the last number of years in our immigrant nominee program in regard to bringing in people who have helped out tremendously within Yukon in the tourism and service sectors. You can see those people whether you go to Canadian Tire or Tim Hortons or to various other businesses in town. We have a very vibrant and very welcome new Canadian population.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

What do you think, Mr. Holmes?

[Robert Holmes]

The only other thing I can add is that most mining companies have entered into agreements with first nation governments to provide benefits, particularly employment opportunities. The Wolverine project, which I mentioned before, is a Chinese-owned project that has employed about 30 to 40 first nation people from two first nation communities, which is a really big deal for the first nation people.

Companies will develop their own training programs and try to bring them up, and it's important to the Yukon that first nation people benefit from these projects. It's very important in order for this development to continue to have a social licence in the communities.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I agree with you. But it seems to me that there are not enough programs to encourage people to take courses so they are then able to help you. You said you need skilled people. Those who are not skilled will always remain that way if you do not encourage them to go to school.

Quebec has incentives to encourage people who are not working to take courses in accounting, management, cabinet making and plumbing.

How do we get people out of this slump? You bring in educated people from the outside instead of educating the people from the Yukon. That bothers me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We have time for a brief answer.

[David Austin]

That is exactly the kind of program I am currently involved in. We're trying to provide people that are underemployed or unemployed with the skills they need to go on and find meaningful employment elsewhere in the territory. It's precisely what we're doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Gaudet. It is now Mr. Payne's turn, followed by Mr. Rickford.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for coming today. It was a very interesting flight here in the Yukon.

I was listening to a number of you speak. Certainly you mentioned Canada's economic action plan, Building Canada, SINED, the community adjustment fund, the R-in-C, and of course CanNor. So it sounds like you have access to a whole spectrum of funding to address things from infrastructure right through to business development.

With all of these programs that have been announced and put into the plan, is there anything in the current suite of programs that it doesn't address? Are there gaps that you think maybe CanNor could fill?

[Dr. Harvey Brooks]

There are things you need to know about the north, and I'm sure you'll hear this echoed in your meetings across the territories. One is that you would recognize the shortness of the construction season here, and the necessity for approvals to be in place in time to actually address construction season. Depending on the projects, approvals even at this point in time might not allow enough room for our next construction season.

So we all get crowded a little bit, especially when we talk about time-limited funding in terms of being able to get people on the ground for projects that actually allow us to complete them in time for the funding. We do think that the addition of CanNor will allow for more local understanding of the priorities that exist at both the federal level, and then in conjunction with the local governments--the Yukon, territorial level, and the first nations level--we can work towards projects that we may not be able to address if we're addressing them in our own fashion.

We think there's quite a bit there. We were very encouraged by the early discussions we've had with CanNor, that we can work in close coordination in terms of understanding each other's priorities and moving towards that. We are very familiar with the funding sources they have available to them.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay. Thank you.

You talked about the devolution and the other territories'--Nunavut's--ongoing process. You also talked about the potential for increasing the $3 million cap. Is there something you need agreement on--because I'm not totally familiar with it—that allows those changes for the other territories and Nunavut?

[Dr. Harvey Brooks]

Not specifically, but my understanding--and again I'm not an expert on the agreement--is that if somebody else gets a sweeter deal, then we have access to the same terms, the equivalent terms of the deal that they would be signing as well. If they come up with an agreement that has a recognition that the transfer allocation of resource revenues needs to be higher, then I'm sure we would be at the table to negotiate our own increase in that.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I have another question about the $3 million cap. I don't particularly like the term “clawback”, but you use that term. Is that dollar for dollar? Just how is that figured out?

[Robert Holmes]

I want to note too that the $3 million cap is set out under the DTA, the devolution transfer agreement; it's a 100% clawback. I don't know exactly how it's clawed back, but it's clawed back. So effectively it's 100%. Under $3 million, Yukon keeps 100%. The $3 million is all resource revenue, so that includes land rental, leases, license fees.

At the time of the devolution we were close to $2 million without any mines in development. It also includes the royalties, so there's very little room for royalty to be acquired by the Yukon government. The royalties we get to keep under the $3 million are shared with first nations under the final agreement and those are constitutionally entrenched. So the issue is to raise the cap and not to change the sharing formula with the first nations.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Just a very brief question.