Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Good morning.

We're delighted, Premier, to have you here with us this morning, as well as Deputy Premier Miltenberger and Mr. Vician.

It's good to see you again, Mr. Vician.

Members, witnesses, and guests, this is in fact the 38th meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. We are in the course of consideration of the barriers and opportunities in regard to the advancement of northern economic development, certainly for the great outcomes that brings, but also for northerners in general.

This is the second of our three-city visit to the north. We were two days, yesterday, in Yukon, and starting here today and tomorrow in Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories.

We'll begin as is customary. We have just the three of you here. We may have a fourth joining us, but we'll be seeking Mr. Gruben's interest in possibly moving Mr. Gruben to the second panel, so it will give us a little bit more time.

Premier, we're delighted to have you here again. We'll give you some latitude here in terms of time. We customarily have five-minute presentations each. It's my understanding that each of you would like the opportunity to speak to the committee.

With that, we'll get under way.

Premier Roland.

[Floyd Roland, Premier, Government of the Northwest Territories]

Good morning, and welcome to Yellowknife.

Members of Parliament, chair of the committee, committee members, and staff, I am Floyd Roland, Premier of the Northwest Territories and Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations.

I would like to welcome you all here to the north, and I want to thank you for venturing outside of the nation's capital to speak to northerners on our turf. We do appreciate your attending here today, and we hope the stories you take home with you will shape your thinking about our home, our people, and our land.

You've asked three departments of the Government of the Northwest Territories to speak to the committee today about the barriers and solutions to northern economic development.

I am pleased that my colleague, the Honourable Michael Miltenberger, Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, and Mr. Peter Vician, Deputy Minister, Industry, Tourism and Investment, have joined me today to contribute to this important subject area.

I believe it's fair to say that Canadians, and in fact the international community, have realized the importance and significance of the north and our tremendous economic potential, our vast landscape, our breathtakingly beautiful geography, our cultural diversity, and our unique political system.

I am also reasonably certain that your briefs included a mention of the NWT's comparatively high cost of living, the persistent socio-economic gaps between aboriginal and non-aboriginal northerners and between those living in urban versus rural and remote communities, and the infrastructure deficit we experience in the vast territory we call home.

You'll know we have both enormous opportunity and enormous challenge. In order for us to ensure that we do not squander the opportunities, our governments will need to do a lot better at working together towards a comprehensive plan for the NWT, one that is developed by northerners and supported by Canada, a big picture plan that guides our various initiatives and policies, particularly around land management, the creation of national parks and conservation areas, and the negotiation of government systems through land, resources, and self-government agreements.

Such a comprehensive plan—which, I put to you, does not currently exist—is absolutely necessary to create the right conditions for northerners as well as Canadians from coast to coast to coast to benefit from economic development north of 60.

A key element of such a comprehensive plan is the finalization and full implementation of land resources and self-government agreements. The negotiation and implementation of aboriginal rights agreements in all of the NWT's regions are absolutely necessary steps in ensuring aboriginal people have the tools to fully participate in the NWT and Canadian economies.

Equally important is that all parties to these negotiations are guided by the principle of negotiating workable, affordable, effective structures of government at the community and regional levels and supporting, not duplicating, existing regulatory land and resource management regimes.

The NWT currently has three settled land claims agreements, Inuvialuit, Gwich'in, Sahtu; one land claim and self-government agreement, the Tlicho; and one treaty entitlement agreement, Salt River.

We still have a way to go. There are lands, resources, and self-government negotiations taking place in all regions of the NWT. There are also transboundary negotiations with the Na-Cho Nyak Dun of the Yukon and the Manitoba and Saskatchewan Denesuline, who have asserted rights north of 60.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is an active party to all these negotiations, as we support the settlement of all outstanding aboriginal rights in the NWT. We do so because we want to be a part of rectifying historic wrongs and because we know from experience that those who have settled land claims in the NWT have the tools necessary to fully participate in large-scale economic development initiatives.

It is no coincidence that those regions with settled land claims have fully supported the proposed Mackenzie gas project, largely because they have a direct stake as part owners of the project and benefit directly from its success.

The need to have a stake in decisions that affect us holds true for northerners generally. We want nothing less than what most Canadians already have. We want to make the decisions over NWT land and resource management and ensure we benefit from the development.

We must continue to work together with the federal government and with aboriginal governments to achieve the long-overdue devolution of legislative authority over land and resources from Ottawa to the north. Without this authority, we will have little power to influence or control NWT land management decisions to ensure that more of the benefits from resource development accrue to NWT residents.

There is no reason that we are trusted to run our health care system, our education systems, our transportation systems, and all the other devolved jurisdictions we have, but not to have jurisdiction over one area that could bring our governments revenue to support these programs and more.

Devolution creates a stable climate for industry and investment by providing clarity around land ownership, land management, and who needs to be consulted when and by whom, but devolution takes political will, the will to give northerners a fair share of the resource revenues made from their land. I am confident that the settlement of land claims and the agreement on devolution will bring about the required certainty regarding NWT lands, resources, and governance and create the right conditions for the NWT's economy to be developed in such a way as to create jobs and business opportunities for Canadians, aboriginal and non-aboriginal, living north and south of 60.

The settlement of land, resources, and self-government agreements takes time. It takes time because so much is at stake and because the issues on the table are complex and numerous. If we are not careful now, at the design stage, we may create a governance regime in the NWT that lacks the capacity to serve its citizens and to create the necessary conditions to support balanced and sustainable economic development. It is now, before the ink is dry, that we need to ask ourselves a number of questions: are we creating the right conditions for mutually respectful and productive government-to-government relations between public and aboriginal governments? Do aboriginal governments have the capacity to fully implement their self-government agreements? Who pays for self-government? Will the NWT's government system be more streamlined, or crippled by too much government?

I respectfully put it to you that we have not worked hard enough to find answers to these questions. For example, the issues of self-government financing and of capacity-building in emerging aboriginal governments have not been resolved. Our government has raised these issues countless times with various federal departments, but there is little indication that there is a willingness to find solutions.

The fix, gentlemen, is not punting these important issues or leaving them to the Government of the Northwest Territories and NWT and aboriginal governments to sort out long after agreements have been signed.

The successful conclusion of aboriginal rights agreements, devolution agreements, and resource revenue-sharing agreements is required for the NWT to reach its full economic potential. What is needed is a recognition and acceptance by Canada of its traditional policy objectives of effective public government and recognition of aboriginal rights in the NWT. How we give meaning to these policy objectives should be described in a comprehensive plan for the NWT, one developed here in the NWT and supported by the Government of Canada. We invite Canada to assist us in striving toward our goal: a prosperous north that embraces aboriginal rights, puts northerners in charge of decisions that affect them, and places the NWT in its rightful place in Confederation.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Premier Roland.

Now we will go to Mr. Miltenberger

[Michael Miltenberger, Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance and Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We're here today talking about an issue that to most of you is possibly a political or academic discussion, because this is something you've never had to fight for. The premier and I have now been at this table or these types of tables going on 15 years, pushing and fighting for devolution and resource revenue sharing. We're here yet again to raise this issue, as the premier has done so succinctly in his statements.

It's simple. We want to have the authority in the north to make decisions about what's happening in the north, about the type of development, the conditions, the systems. We want to manage and govern resource development. Right now, there is overlap. There is confusion. There is uncertainty. As a government, to add some detail to the premier's broad statements, we've been continuing to work for devolution.

While we are moving in areas where the legal authority lies with the federal government, we are using what we see as our political and moral authority to start getting our house in order. We just recently released our water strategy, which is going to lay out how we want to deal with water as it affects us in the Northwest Territories and as it affects us as inhabitants of the Mackenzie River basin, including Alberta, B.C., Yukon, Saskatchewan, and the Northwest Territories. We're working on a land use framework that is going to get our thinking clear and focus our policy as it comes to land use. We fully support the push by McCrank for land use planning. To underline the premier's comments, the federal government has no plan that we have seen or that they have shared with us. They come north on a park by park, resource development by resource development approach, often with little consultation, to impose in many cases what they have decided in Ottawa is good for us. While we may not always disagree, the process thoroughly chafes, I can tell you.

We are continuing to work on issues that are very important to the people here, such as the Species at Risk Act and the Wildlife Act. We've put forward what we think is a very reasonable proposal for regulatory reform that will recognize that we have a system designed by the federal government that has some flaws that can be fixed.

To give you some very fundamental examples, we do not even have the authority to appoint our board members to the regulatory boards that exist here. We have to make recommendations to Ottawa, a process that can take up to a year. We constantly fight quorum issues. We constantly struggle over policy areas that are grey, mandates that are not clear. These are all things that could be clarified if there was the will in Ottawa to do so.

We've offered these suggestions to the government. We are working with the boards. We're working with the aboriginal governments to come forward with an even more defined package when it comes to those types of issues.

You also can't separate economic development from the environment up here. We're a resource-based economy in a very sensitive, often fragile, ecosystem, and we are being hugely impacted by climate change. We need to be able to deal with those issues, as they are related. Right now, we often don't have that authority, and it's very difficult.

There's a huge concern about how we do development. We have around us examples of things that have gone wrong in the past, and I'll just point to one example. Just out the door here, a kilometre or so away, is Giant Mine, where we have 320,000 metric tonnes of arsenic trioxide stuffed into mine shafts that we're going to freeze because we don't know what else to do with it. It's going to cost an enormous amount of money to do.

We have in our backyards examples of what happens when things go wrong when there's not sufficient involvement of the local people. As the premier indicated, we work in partnership with the aboriginal governments on a lot of these broad issues so that we can move forward together.

Our strategy for water is called “Northern Voices, Northern Waters” for that very reason. It's to symbolize that connection. As we sit here today once again making a case to Ottawa, it's a very simple message.

This government has about two years left in its term, and we would very much like to see the yardsticks on this issue finally advanced. It's been a very difficult process. In our terms, I think we've lived through three separate cycles of different federal governments; we tell the same story and make the same case, along with the aboriginal governments, and now it's your turn.

We're glad you're here. We hope this will have some positive effect as you take what you've heard from us back to Ottawa.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Vician, who joins us again. Mr. Vician joined us back in the spring, you'll recall. We're delighted to be on your turf this time.

Go ahead, sir. You have five minutes.

[Peter Vician, Deputy Minister, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Government of the Northwest Territories]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, committee members.

Thank you for giving the Government of the Northwest Territories the opportunity to appear before you to talk about its perspectives on critical issues facing Canada's Northwest Territories.

On behalf of my minister, the Honourable Bob McLeod, Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, I also want to thank all of you for coming to this vibrant and beautiful place we call home. I'm pleased to have the chance to address the committee and to answer your questions.

I'm here today to highlight the key economic drivers and opportunities affecting the Northwest Territories. It's a territory that covers a huge area of Canada and has a small population scattered across 33 communities. Specifically, I'm here today to provide recommendations to this committee regarding our government's priorities and direction for a vision of a healthy and prosperous Northwest Territories in a strong and sovereign Canada.

When I last addressed the committee in April, I provided a broad perspective, plus some background and details on economic development in the Northwest Territories, the state of our economy, our needs, and our recommendations on how to meet those needs. Today I will dig deeper and provide more specifics on a number of key initiatives in both the renewable and non-renewable sectors in the economy, initiatives the government believes will go a long way towards creating that healthy and prosperous NWT I spoke about moments ago.

The development of renewable energy resources is one area our government is focusing on. Many of our communities rely on diesel fuel for power generation, and the cost is astronomical in the Northwest Territories, particularly in many of our remote and small hamlets, villages, and towns. The price of electricity in diesel-powered communities can range from 50¢ a kilowatt hour to well over $2 a kilowatt hour in places like Colville Lake, an off-road community with a population of 125 people. The annual power bill for a small community store in the community of Nahanni Butte is in the range of $80,000 a year. I suspect most of you pay less than 10¢ per kilowatt hour for your electricity. These prices for power are crippling our residents and our businesses in the north.

Investing in renewable energy will not only protect the NWT from fluctuating diesel prices; it will also reduce greenhouse gas emissions and contribute to fighting climate change. Our government is investing in renewable energy in everything from mini-hydro projects in Lutselk'e, to wind power in Tuktoyaktuk, to residual heat and solar power initiatives.

The GNWT has recently committed $5 million to develop and implement a biomass energy strategy, but our largest and most significant project in this area is the Taltson hydro expansion project. It's a strong indication of the government's commitment to develop renewable energy. The expansion is a proposed 36 megawatt to 56 megawatt expansion to the Twin Gorges plant on the Taltson River in the southeast region of the Northwest Territories.

In his statement to this committee, Premier Roland spoke about the GNWT's interest in working with aboriginal partners in economic development projects. The Taltson hydro expansion is one such project. The Dezé Energy Corporation is pursuing the project and is equally owned by the GNWT, the Akaitcho territorial government, and the NWT Métis nation. This project is a vital one for the NWT because it will displace 100 million litres of diesel and 280 kilotonnes of carbon dioxide annually. It will provide valuable economic opportunity for the two aboriginal governments partnering with the GNWT. It will lengthen the life of the mines in this area, and it will provide an ongoing revenue source for the government and its aboriginal partners as clean, renewable energy is sold to these mines.

The Northwest Territories government also recognizes the importance of the non-renewable sector and its role in contributing to a strong, prosperous NWT. Mining has a long and storied history in the Northwest Territories. It has provided jobs and business opportunities in our territory for decades. The NWT's three diamond mines are key drivers of the NWT economy. Since that first mine began construction in 1996, our territory has benefited from almost 14,000 person-years of northern resident employment, and the mines have bought more than $7 billion of goods and services from northern businesses. More than $3 billion of those purchases were from aboriginal northern businesses.

The Northwest Territories does not want to rest on its diamond mining laurels. There are excellent opportunities for the industry here in the north. Along with the new diamond mine at Gahcho Kué, which is on the way, there are a number of other projects in various stages of development that range from gold to tungsten, lead, zinc, uranium, and rare earths. Our territory is open for business and it is open to exploration and mining development done in an environmentally responsible and sustainable way.

The GNWT also supports another hugely important non-renewable resource project: the Mackenzie gas project. The construction of this 1,200-kilometre natural gas pipeline and the gas-gathering system would create 31,300 person-years of employment in the Northwest Territories and 208,000 person-years of employment in Canada. This project would create sustained employment opportunities in the communities up and down the Mackenzie Valley and provide clean-burning natural gas to homes and businesses across Canada.

Premier Roland spoke earlier about the link between settled land claims and economic activity in the NWT. The Aboriginal Pipeline Group created by NWT aboriginal groups with settled land claims holds one-third ownership interest in this project. APG ownership is a new and unique model for aboriginal participation in this economy. It will allow for aboriginal people in our territory to capitalize on the benefits of this proposed project and lead them to greater independence and self-reliance.

The NWT--in fact, all of Canada--stands to benefit from the building of this project. Our government believes the federal government's support of the MGP is crucial if it is to succeed.

Not all of our economic opportunities are as big and as mighty as that pipeline, however; the NWT has a strong traditional economy sector. About 40% of our NWT residents over the age of 15 spend time trapping, fishing, and hunting. Through our Genuine Mackenzie Valley Furs program, the GNWT is one of the very few governments in the world that supports the harvesting and marketing of wild furs as a fundamental part of a thriving modern economy. We're proud of that program, and the NWT furs are considered some of the finest in the world.

The government also actively supports small and medium-sized business development, whether in the service industries or in our burgeoning value-added sector. For example, in order to meet local demand as well as to export NWT fish to other markets, the GNWT promotes the harvesting and processing of NWT fish products from our cold, pristine waters.

Similarly, the government also supports the harvesting of muskoxen and reindeer. Muskox meat is marketed to high-end restaurants, and muskox fur, or qiviut, as it's called, is highly valued by the textile industry.

The territories' vibrant arts and crafts sector is yet another example of a small business sector that GNWT invests in. Our government's NWT arts strategy guides a variety of programs and services developed to help our artists and craftspeople.

While all these sectors are critical to the NWT's economy, I've saved the best, perhaps, for last: the tourism industry. The NWT features some of the world's greatest attractions: unforgettable scenery, teeming wildlife, and people who still hold to their traditional cultures. You can see and do things here that you can't do anywhere else. Our tourist operators offer world-class products, aurora viewing, and wilderness and ecotourism attractions for outdoor sportsmen and sportswomen.

Through such efforts as our 2010 tourism plan and our product diversification and marketing program, we continue to invest in this sector, one that's sustainable and generates over $130 million annually in revenue.

Mr. Chairman, committee members, what is needed from the federal government to assist the GNWT in making its vision of a healthy, prosperous NWT within a strong, sovereign Canada a reality?

First, we need your continued support and investment in NWT energy, transportation, and community infrastructure. Taltson, the MGP, and the Mackenzie Highway connector are essential ingredients to the NWT and to Canada's future.

Second, we need the federal government to direct its available and limited economic program spending in three key areas: first, geosciences, dealing with the mining sector; second, tourism product development, marketing, and infrastructure; and third, support to small and medium-sized businesses, particularly aboriginal businesses.

Third overall, we need to ensure that the north has adequate private investment; that is everyone's concern. As Minister Miltenberger has explained, the north desperately needs a regulatory system that respects both modern business principles and northern aspirations.

Mr. Chairman, the NWT's future is promising. Northerners are ready to act and to contribute to improving Canada's economy.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Vician.

We'll now go to the second part of our meeting, which involves questions from members.

We've typically been doing this in five-minute question periods. We allow five minutes in total for each member's questions and responses, so we encourage everyone to keep questions and responses succinct.

Of course, you know we have representatives on the committee from all four parties in the House of Commons, in essentially the same proportion that the parties share the seats in the House. For that reason, we have simultaneous interpretation available.

The committee has a predetermined order of speakers. We'll follow that list right to the T, each, again, with five-minute rounds.

Mr. Bagnell, please begin the first round.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I thank you all for being here. It's very helpful. We're very excited to be able to actually come and hear from northerners at home, from people on the ground, on what they really need. As the critic for the Arctic in Parliament, it's great to see you all again; I've talked to you before.

My question is just going to be about a ranking of priorities. As you know, Canada has the biggest deficit in history. I'm sure the finance minister would not give me all the things I'd like to do for the Northwest Territories. Perhaps you could help me out on what some of the priorities would be, so that we don't do the picking.

Examples that were mentioned include the road to Tuk; the Mackenzie Highway; increasing geoscience funding; the road to Bathurst Inlet; restoring federal funding to arts and culture; fixing the ineffective federal implementation of claims and self-government; affordable housing; more military in the north; resource revenue sharing; northern tourism marketing and product development, which Peter mentioned; making regulatory approvals more efficient; expanding parks like Nahanni; increasing the northern allowance; more money for climate change adaptation, which affects the north so much; increasing the food mail program; renewing the extraordinary health funding that expires soon; devolution, which the premier talked about, as did Michael; the Talston subsidy; getting small communities off hydro; land use planning; and the Mackenzie Valley pipeline.

It would be great if you could give some priorities here rather than me trying to guess. In the real world, I'll never be able to get everything that I would like to push for.

[Floyd Roland]

I think your question, with the long list you've provided, is probably one of the reasons why this government is more about saying, “Give us the tools so that we can build it”, and not about....

There's still a need for project-specific funding. We're trying to deal with many of the things you've highlighted from within our budget process. We go to our finance minister and ask him for the funds.

More importantly, though, and key to the discussion, as I entered into this, is that if we were to progress and move the yardstick, as Minister Miltenberger put it, on devolution and resource revenue sharing, we could answer many of those questions ourselves, instead of going, as has typically been done, to the federal government, hat in hand, saying, “Help us on this project. Help us on climate change. Help us on roads. Help us on hydro facilities.”

That will, of course, always be part of the relationship we have, much like every other jurisdiction. I mean, we can talk about east coast oil and gas development, we can talk about national highway systems, we can talk about ports and so on; the federal government has helped all jurisdictions.

I think the fundamental piece we would have is that with devolution and resource revenue sharing brought to a conclusion, and an adequate resource revenue sharing piece, we would be able to answer those things--we're starting to already, with our limited budget, on climate change--and go forward on that basis.

There are some key pillars that we've put forward. The message that I have shared, whenever I've had a chance to speak to the Prime Minister and my fellow colleagues across the country, is that in terms of our relationship on the larger projects that need assistance and that a small territorial government cannot afford on its own, these would include the Mackenzie gas pipeline and hydro development. They are key pillars of what we see as developing a sustainable long-term economy.

Mr. Vician has given you numbers on the impacts of the diamond mine, the jobs, the money spent by aboriginal companies. One thing we have to say is that every nut and bolt we turn in the Northwest Territories was manufactured in somebody else's jurisdiction, some other province. We import a huge amount of goods, from nuts and bolts to all our fuel. We ship it out of here, somebody refines it, and we ship it back at an increased cost.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

We will now go to Mr. Lévesque, for five minutes.

Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Good day, gentlemen. I have to wonder if you often hear French spoken in the NWT.

I myself am from northwestern Quebec. Nunavik is part of my riding. Given the unique situation in Quebec, we are not familiar with the NWT's lack of authority over the management of their own affairs, in particular the negotiations with first nations, a very timely issue. Does the authority that you have and that stems from these agreements give you some power within the population in general?

To determine whether or not it does, I would like to know, first of all, what the first nation population of the territories is versus the non-native population? Does this population include some Inuit, or only first nation members? The Inuit like to say that they are a different population group. They do not like to be lumped in with first nations. They prefer to be identified separately as Inuit. I'm not sure if you have witnessed this. Can you give me some idea of the population in each group in the NWT?

[Floyd Roland]

Thank you.

In the population makeup of the Northwest Territories, we have first nations, Inuit, and Métis. From my group of people, the Inuit, I guess, would be more the Inuvialuit, and that is the tie to the Inuit. We have the Dene or the first nations and then we have the Métis. Our overall aboriginal population across the Northwest Territories is more than half of our population.

So more than 50% is aboriginal, and on top of that we have 11 official languages in the Northwest Territories that match with each of our first nations and Inuvialuit groups. We have a very diverse cultural makeup in the Northwest Territories.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Is the level of participation on the part of first nations good? For example, do you have an association representing all first nations, or another association representing the Métis? The Métis are rather difficult to target because they are still not formally recognized as a first nation. For example, are there any national associations in the NWT that represent all first nations?

[Floyd Roland]

Our relationship with aboriginal governments and organizations in the Northwest Territories is a healthy one. For example, through our government, we've put in place what we would call regional aboriginal leaders meetings. That includes me as the premier of the Northwest Territories. All the regions are represented, so we have the Inuvialuit, the Sahtu, the Gwich'in, the Dehcho, the Akaitcho, the Métis, and the Tlicho.

The Tlicho actually is the one body that has an official self-government agreement enshrined in legislation now, along with ourselves. The rest are negotiating.

We have this table that is organized now so that we can bring the regional leaders to a table to talk about how we work together on initiatives. That is where.... For example, Mr. Miltenberger spoke of our water strategy. Through that table, we worked with them together on that water strategy. On our land management issues, it's a similar scenario, pulling them to the table and working with them on that structure.

On the economic side, the Aboriginal Pipeline Group is an example of where the bodies themselves, the aboriginal people themselves, have pulled together to create an economic arm to be involved in a major project like the Mackenzie gas pipeline.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

Unfortunately, your time is up.

Now we'll go to Mr. Bevington for five minutes.

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks, Premier Roland, Finance Minister Miltenberger, and Deputy Minister Peter Vician. I'm very pleased that you've all been able to come here and present.

You spoke eloquently on the issues that I support as well, of course, and push forward. I'm lined up with what you're saying. I think we all are in the Northwest Territories. We have a common understanding that we need to move ahead. Yes, we do have issues that very much have to be resolved, but I think your administration is certainly moving ahead with the concept that we can work together in the Northwest Territories to achieve these common goals.

Just from hearing your comments, I think you understand the complexity of our aboriginal governments, of our public government system here. I'm sure the rest of the committee gets that from your comments as well.

Having said that, I think we need the support of the federal government. We need them to understand that complexity and not put up barriers to our solving our internal problems and moving forward.

Premier Roland, how would you characterize the work of the federal government in the last two years in pushing forward the issues of devolution?

[Floyd Roland]

With regard to devolution, the first thing we did as the Government of the Northwest Territories was to meet with our regional aboriginal leaders and talk with them about a common approach from the north to the federal government. We put the discussion aside for a while until we had a better understanding and could bring the partnership in the north together in a more cohesive fashion.

The work with the federal government on a number of fronts has been good, I would say, but getting critical momentum has been a slow process. As Mr. Miltenberger said, it's not been just this government; it's been other governments in the past.

We've recently had an increase in wanting to sit down and have a discussion about devolution and resource revenue sharing. Our issue will come down to the numbers, the percentages. What will be the real benefit of signing an agreement? Will it allow us to invest in larger projects that will build an economy, which will allow us to become more of an economic player on the table instead of a poor cousin to the north in that aspect?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

The major economic initiative in the Northwest Territories in the past 15 years has been the diamond mines.

Minister Miltenberger, could you give us a picture of what's happened with those diamond mines? Mineral development rests completely within the hands of the federal government. How would you characterize the results of having the major economic driver in the Northwest Territories handled by Ottawa, which is 2,500 miles from here?

[Michael Miltenberger]

The diamond mines, as Mr. Vician pointed out, have been a key engine for us. The regime we work under to have them established is the one that we've just been talking about. We are a player in that, but we don't control a lot of the levers.

Overall, the diamond mines, compared to some of the history we've had with some of the gold mines and such, are seen as very progressive. The whole point of the Taltson expansion is to try to get power up to the North Slave geological province so that we can in fact try to extend the life of the existing mines. They are probably the most environmentally benign of all the mines we've had. Of course, we think if we had control of the process we'd be able to manage that type of development along with the other development that Mr. Vician mentioned, the rare earth development just outside of Yellowknife.

There are a number of other big developments. The whole point of our push for devolution and the authority is to be able to control the resource development and how it proceeds. But we do recognize that the diamond mines have been very critical to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bevington.

Now we'll go to Mr. Duncan for five minutes.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and good morning.

I'm reminded, Premier Roland, that I was a new member of Parliament when you were a new MLA and we met in Inuvik. Do you recall that?

[Floyd Roland]

That was some time ago.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

It was some time ago, yes.

After that, one of my vivid memories is the three days I spent in Tulita at the Sahtu annual meetings. I pulled a very big surprise there, because Ethel Blondin-Andrew arrived and asked me what I was up to, knowing that she had seen me somewhere before but not placing me in the House of Commons across from her, so it was fascinating.

In any event, I bring you greetings from the past.

I couldn't help but read the newspaper, coming from Fort Simpson on our way here last night. We know how much the mining sector means to the north. The NWT and Nunavut Chamber of Mines is promoting an alternative vision in terms of priority for highway development. They are calling it the Yellowknife to Coronation Gulf connection through the Slave Geological Province.

I did not see anything in your presentations that would indicate any kind of alignment with that kind of thinking. I am sure we're going to hear more about it. I am wondering if you would like to talk about that.

[Floyd Roland]

I recall the visit. I believe when we met in Inuvik it was at my office, which was across from the town office at that point. So you sparked a memory. Thank you very much.

There is the issue of our alignment with some of the work that is being done. It is a pretty good alignment. Mr. Vician can give you some of the details on that.

As I have said, through a number of sources, we would like to have that authority and make those decisions and investment ourselves, but right now we continue with our process of lining up to apply for funding whenever there is a new pot of that made available.

Our department of transportation is involved in the Slave Geological Province winter road realignment work that is ongoing, and we continue to make what investments we can and continue to put our business case forward.

Mr. Vician can give you a little more detail on that.

[Peter Vician]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Duncan, thank you for the question.

The NWT Chamber of Mines has proposed a grand vision for development of the non-renewable resource base across the north. I presume that is the submission you were reviewing.

One of the components of that is to have better access into that province and to ensure that is available long term. We continue to work with them. The mines have done a great piece of work in preparing for that. That is not a project that is not on the list. However, the mines' view and our view today is that the key issue that needs to be put forward is the development of hydroelectric power supply to displace diesel that has to be trucked from Saskatchewan and Alberta to supply that region.

The other, and not so much contrary, issue, of course, is to make sure that oil and gas potential up the Mackenzie Valley is developed. So we are not putting all of the eggs in one regional basket but are basically ensuring that we develop the entire region of the territories so that our residents can all have opportunities.

Having to transport people from Tuktoyaktuk to the mine sites just north of Yellowknife does not make sense over the long term. We need to build a community economy across the Northwest Territories. That is why you'll see the GNWT very much promoting the Mackenzie gas project.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.