Evidence of meeting #38 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nwt.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Time goes very quickly. When you get on a roll, Mr. Duncan, time evaporates.
Thank you very much.
We will now continue with Mr. Gaudet.
You have five minutes.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question might seem too simple, Mr. Pokiak, but I will ask it anyway. Why have you not turned trapping and hunting into tourist attractions?
7:10 p.m.
Director, Tuktoyaktuk Hunters and Trappers Committee
That's very hard to answer. It's hard for us to manage our own land with other people, with tourism. It's really tough. Even to take out a non-aboriginal like yourself, if I wanted to take you out, I'd be charged by ENR and DFO. When we go out on the land, it's mostly just the aboriginal people, sad to say. I wouldn't mind to do that, all right, for income.
One thing they cut off as well is sport hunting for caribou. They haven't done it yet for muskox and polar bear, so that's one avenue, but they did cut it off indefinitely for caribou until the numbers come up.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Blondin, does your organization not have labour standards in place? I was truly affected earlier when you said that the mining company will not give workers leave to attend the funeral of a family member. That is immoral.
Are there no labour standards for mining companies? If my father were to pass way, as a Member of Parliament, I would request leave to return home. Do you not have similar standards in place? What is the big problem?
7:10 p.m.
Director, Mine Training Society
I'm not sure about the labour standards, but with each of the mining companies we negotiate impact and benefit agreements in terms of what can happen between the mining companies and ourselves in terms of what cultural leave we can take, when we have to leave, and bereavement of family. Their definition of “immediate family” means just your brother, sister, mother, and father. In our society, of course, what happened quite some time ago is that younger families went out hunting and trapping and the grandparents raised a lot of the younger people. So when a grandparent passes away, in our culture it's very important that you're there to see them off, but it's not defined as immediate family in our benefit agreements.
So when a very important person passes away in our community, usually about four or five workers want to come out at the same time, and that disrupts the activity of a mining company. Therefore, they find it very expensive, on their behalf, and there are a lot of problems.
7:15 p.m.
Director, Mine Training Society
A lot of these workers have had experience before in other mines, but when you get to work for one of the mining companies, you're given labour work wages at the entry level, and you have to start working your way up. Now, if you work at BHP and then you transfer over to Diavik, in most cases you have to start all over again. And that's what's happening. As mining activity slows down in one mine, a lot of workers want to transfer.
Reading the newspaper just recently, I see Diavik wants to hire another 150 people. So already the word is around the community that people want to start transferring. But they're young enough.
The other way they can move up the ladder also is to take training in other areas and to get higher-paid jobs. If you work in a process plant, you get paid a certain rate. If you're a truck driver, you get paid a certain rate. Everybody wants to work as a truck driver, but that job doesn't transfer well to working in the community. But workers who get an apprenticeship position as an electrician—as a few people in our community have done—and get the training up in the mines, they come home and they do electrical work for a few bucks. So that kind of work transfers very well, and we really try to push those type of things.
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Todd Russell
That's going to do it. Mr. Gaudet, thank you very much.
And thank you to the witnesses.
We'll go to the Conservative Party. I think we're having two people split their time.
7:15 p.m.
Director, Tuktoyaktuk Hunters and Trappers Committee
Can I add something to Mr. Gaudet?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Tuktoyaktuk Hunters and Trappers Committee
There's one other cost factor we have to go through. To take somebody like yourself out on the land, we have to get all our licences in order and buy a permit. And to cover the costs, it costs about $7,000 just to establish yourself or myself as an outfitter.
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Todd Russell
Okay.
Thank you very much.
We'll have five minutes for both Mr. Clarke and Mr. Duncan. Mr. Clarke.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for coming in this evening. It's getting late for some of us, and no doubt you're doing very well for.... It's a long day.
You mentioned the lack of housing. Being first nations myself and living and working on a reserve, I know what communities face. My riding is in northern Saskatchewan. To get into what our study is, the economic development of the northern territories, I understand there was $300 million allotted for the territories in Nunavut and I believe $50 million was also allocated specifically for the Northwest Territories to improve housing.
How is this money being used for economic development in the northern communities? Is it through trades, through apprenticeships, through work experience programs? This is to whoever can answer the question.
7:20 p.m.
Director, Tuktoyaktuk Hunters and Trappers Committee
There was a trades program up in Tuktoyaktuk last fall. When I took that program, I passed the course. It was very successful. They built something like a hab house for the Tuk Housing Association. They only finished half of it, so they got another contractor to come in. What happened is that the trades program only went as far as the money allowed. It's hard to get the teachers to go up there and be there for a long time. That's how it worked. They were working for about three months.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
What we have seen in the Yukon is almost like a mentoring program in place. Were they also doing that there?
7:20 p.m.
Director, Tuktoyaktuk Hunters and Trappers Committee
Yes. They were doing that through our Tuk community corporation and housing association. They were interacting with each other, and it was successful. Right now, they're doing renovations on houses over 30 years old. For 25% of the income, you're just putting makeup on a house, without the foundation even being levelled first. What happened in the past is that we would get a lot of permafrost, and it moves up and down.
7:20 p.m.
President, Northern Territories Federation of Labour
I would like to add to that. One of the biggest differences between the northern parts of the provinces and Nunavut specifically is that there is no road access. The largest material needed for houses is wood, and there are no trees in Nunavut. The wood has to be brought in somehow. Barges come in once a year.
So there are many other barriers. When you say go build a house and here's the money, there are so many other factors that need to be taken into account in Nunavut as well.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC
Oh, great. Where shall I start, then?
Mr. Russell had a line of questioning with you, Mary Lou, concerning the EI numbers. I'm curious too, because I have the same backgrounder. If we were to translate your 33% number nationally, do you have any idea what the number would be? Obviously, there are people who are not in the labour force everywhere in Canada.
7:20 p.m.
President, Northern Territories Federation of Labour
I'm sorry, I don't have those numbers with me. I have them at my office and I could send them in, if you wish.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC
Then we've established that those numbers do exist?
7:20 p.m.
President, Northern Territories Federation of Labour
Yes. As I say, I just don't have them with me. I would have to send them.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
7:20 p.m.
President, Northern Territories Federation of Labour
Basically, there are two different sources. Statistics Canada publishes labour force numbers. Every province and territory publishes, through their bureaux of statistics, their numbers as well.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC
I have read very recently—that's why I was puzzled—that the way the U.S. keeps statistics, it's very easy to develop ithe number of people whose EI benefits have run out and who are no longer considered to be looking for work, but our stats make it very difficult. That's why I was so curious to know how you did this.
You're mixing federal stats with provincial-territorial stats--is that correct?