Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 26th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Good morning, dear colleagues. Today marks the sixth meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Welcome to our presentation this morning.

Our orders of the day include a briefing from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development regarding the issue of post-secondary education for aboriginal people.

We're going to start this morning with a 10-minute presentation, leading off with Mr. Yeates.

So I'd ask you to start, Mr. Yeates, and to introduce the other members of the delegation with you today. You have approximately 10 minutes; we'll provide some latitude on that. Then we'll go to questions from members.

Mr. Yeates.

[Neil Yeates, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you very much, Chair.

With me today is Christine Cram. Christine is the assistant deputy minister for education and social program partnerships. Next is Allan MacDonald, who is with the Office of the Federal Interlocutor, and then Christopher Duchesnes, who is the head of our Inuit relations secretariat.

Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee,

I am pleased to be here today to discuss the important issue of post-secondary education. I will outline what we're doing to improve the educational achievement of aboriginal students and, specifically, what we are doing to improve access to post-secondary education for first nations and Inuit students through our post-secondary education program and other education initiatives.

I think we all understand the importance of aboriginal education. Education is key to a better future for a young and growing aboriginal population. The Centre for the Study of Living Standards and other research institutes have confirmed the potential for this young and growing population to make a significant contribution to Canada's GDP, tax revenues, and reductions in social transfers. The demographics of a young and growing aboriginal population and an older non-aboriginal population mean there will be important opportunities for well-educated aboriginal youth in both today's labour market and those of the future.

However, available data suggests that the number of first nations and Inuit students accessing funds through our post-secondary education program is going down, at a time when population needs are rising. Under our department's post-secondary education program, approximately 23,000 first nations and Inuit students across Canada are receiving about $314 million to help with the cost of tuition fees, books, transportation, and living allowances. This is down from nearly 30,000 students a decade ago.

Although clearly this poses a challenge, some progress has been made. In 2006 approximately 7% of first nations people between the ages of 26 and 64 had a university degree, which is up from 5% in 2001. Similarly, 4% of Inuit students had a university degree in 2006, up from 2% in 2001. However, in comparison, 23% of the non-aboriginal population had a university degree in 2006. Attainment levels are, however, significantly better for college certificates, with 17% of first nations having a college certificate in 2006, compared with 20% for the non-aboriginal population. Clearly, the gap in achievement levels means that we need to speed up the rate of improvement to improve educational outcomes for students.

That is why it is so essential that now, more than ever, the federal government play an active role in supporting access to post-secondary education, especially for aboriginal youth. This year alone, the Government of Canada is investing a total of about $9.8 billion on post-secondary education to address this important issue. What's more, through Canada's economic action plan, HRSDC are making additional investments in labour market and skills development for aboriginal people. These investments will help aboriginal men and women to not only develop vital skills but also take advantage of existing employment opportunities.

In budget 2008, the government committed to review Indian and Northern Affairs Canada's post-secondary education to ensure that it is coordinated with other programs and that it provides the support that first nation and Inuit students need to stay in school and complete their education.

Committee members may recall that the post-secondary education program was examined by the Government of Canada--including this committee in 2006--and outside evaluators a number of times over the past several years.

Some of the observations are that the current program does not ensure that students who most need support get funding; and, awareness among First Nation and Inuit youth of the full range of options for post-secondary education funding is limited, especially for those on reserve.

There needs to be better information on the results being achieved by the program, so that the government can improve the way it reports to all Canadians.

Through the current review, we want to determine how best to increase student access to post-secondary education and ensure that the maximum number of students benefit from the resources available. As well, the review will provide recommendations on how best to support first nation and Inuit students through greater complementarity with other Government of Canada programs. The review will also look to ensure that funding reaches the students who need it most and that the program is accountable to aboriginal students and to all Canadians.

The review is looking at the financial and non-financial barriers faced by students. For example, students may underestimate the costs of attending college and university or may not explore what other types of student financial assistance are available to them. We know that first nations students are more likely to be older, female, and have child care responsibilities; these factors increase the barriers to completion. They are more likely to interrupt their studies to earn employment income. While many of these barriers exist for non-aboriginal students, we know that they are more acute for first nation and Inuit students living in remote, isolated areas.

We are currently in the early stages of work on the review and we will want to hear from others as the work advances, especially from students and their families and from first nation leaders who have primary responsibility for delivering the program funds to their students. One of the issues identified by educators as key to increasing access to post-secondary education is the need to start early and ensure a solid learning foundation.

For first nation and Inuit students, this issue is especially applicable given the low rates of high school completion. Greater success at the post-secondary level is contingent on better results at the high school level. That is why, in addition to the review of post-secondary education, we are exploring other avenues to improve the education of first nation children, including ongoing work on kindergarten to grade 12, improved support for aboriginal economic development and skills, and the provision of career development opportunities, the latter managed largely by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada in partnership with provinces and territories.

I want to take this opportunity to tell you about work underway at INAC to set the foundation for long-term improvements in education. On December 1, 2008, the Department launched two new education programs: the First Nation Students Success Program, and the Education Partnerships Program.

The first nation student success program will support first nation educators on-reserve to develop success plans, conduct student assessments, and put in place performance measurement to assess and report on school and student progress. In particular, the program will help first nation educators to plan and make improvements in three priority areas of literacy, numeracy, and student retention.

Through the education partnerships program, we are working to bring together first nation and provincial educators to improve the academic performance of aboriginal students in first nation and in provincial schools. The closing date for the first-round submission of proposals was February 16—a few days ago—so we are just beginning the work with first nations and provinces to roll out these programs across the country.

Off-reserve, the quality of education for aboriginal students is of critical interest for the Office of the Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians, or OFI, as we call it, which works closely with provinces, national and provincial aboriginal organizations, federal departments, and organizations to improve the quality of education available to off-reserve aboriginal Canadians. OFI is collaborating with several provinces, universities, and other stakeholders on specific projects to address the needs of aboriginal students within provincial systems. INAC is also working with leaders from the four Inuit organizations and key provinces and territories on an Inuit education accord and a related national Inuit education strategy. We'd be pleased to speak in more detail about these initiatives, if the committee wishes.

Mr. Chairman, work is under way across the department to increase access to post-secondary education for aboriginal youth. Clearly, there are no simple solutions to the challenges facing this growing population, but we believe that the work we have started on the review and on improvements to kindergarten to grade 12 education will ultimately help more first nation and Inuit students pursue their educational goals and make a greater contribution to their communities and to Canada.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this important issue with your Committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Yeates.

Now we will go to questions from members.

We'll start with Mr. Russell, for seven minutes.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to each of you. It's good to have you with us again.

In terms of the general funding formula--the 2% cap that currently exists--I think it's generally understood that this doesn't keep pace with the increase in the cost of education for aboriginal children. We also understand there's a rapid population growth--some estimates of 6.2%--in aboriginal communities. Some estimates say that there is a growing gap, that the gap from 1996 up to 2005 is somewhere in the range of $1.7 billion and that the projected deficit in 2010, for instance, could be as high as $304 million alone.

Of all the reviews, audits, and studies that you're conducting, is any thought being given to this? In the correspondence that I have read--the letter from the minister, the response to the standing committee's report on post-secondary education, for instance--there's no indication that the government is even considering getting rid of this 2% cap and coming up with a true funding formula that reflects true costs in population growth.

So I'll ask that question first. Has there been any consideration of getting rid of the 2% cap and moving to a different funding formula?

[Neil Yeates]

It's a good question from the member, Chair.

As the committee would know, the 2% cap, as the member has noted, has been in place for a long time. It has placed a significant amount of pressure on the whole array of programming. It's not just education; it is social programming, and so on, more broadly.

But the question on the 2% cap itself is really a question for the government, Mr. Chair. We in INAC deal with the budget funding that we have and try to make the best use of the funds that are appropriated to us by Parliament. I would say, however, that the government has made investments above and beyond the 2% cap. The budget 2008 initiative that I refer to is beyond the 2% cap.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Excuse me. I've asked a direct question. You're doing a study. You're doing an audit. You're doing all kinds of things. Are you making any recommendation whatsoever to get rid of the 2% cap? It doesn't seem like there's any evidence in any of the literature or any of the indications in terms of the notes that I've read that you're looking at getting rid of the 2% cap and moving to a different funding formula. Are you?

[Neil Yeates]

Specifically for post-secondary education?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

For education generally and post-secondary education specifically.

[Neil Yeates]

In the review we are looking at what we feel the needs are for post-secondary education. So for that program, yes.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

So you are looking at getting rid of the 2% cap for education, generally.

[Neil Yeates]

No, I didn't say that, Member. What I said is that we are, in the review of post-secondary education, looking at the needs for that program and at what's the best way to address the needs for post-secondary education.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I'll tie this into a question that was asked to the minister when he appeared before the committee.

If you're going to build new schools and you're going to renovate schools, where's the additional funding going to come from for those new schools if you have this cap in place and you have an existing budget that's already stretched? Are new funds to run these schools being allocated or being put forward?

[Neil Yeates]

The school capital program is basically replacing existing schools of one kind or another. Depending on the community, there may be a mix of kids who are attending school on-reserve and off-reserve. But basically we're replacing capacity that is already out there.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

On your audit, is the audit complete?

[Neil Yeates]

On post-secondary?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Yes.

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, it just has been completed.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Can the aboriginal affairs committee get a copy of that audit?

[Neil Yeates]

It is going to be posted in the next number of weeks, Member.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Number of weeks? That could be 52. That's a year. When is it going to be posted?

[Neil Yeates]

It just went to our audit committee at the end of last month. It'll be posted, I'm told, within the next 30 days.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Is there any truth to the rumour that INAC is looking at transferring the post-secondary student support program out of the first nations and Inuit organizations' hands and into some other kind of administrative body, such as the Canada student loans program?

[Neil Yeates]

We do want to look at what the options are for the most effective delivery of the program, whether that's through INAC, directly to first nations, third party organizations, or closer affiliations with the Canada student loans program. Yes, we are looking at that array of options.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

So it is possible that you could recommend administratively taking the post-secondary student support program out of the hands of first nations and giving it to the organizations?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, that's one of the options.