Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 26th, 2009

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, if you wanted the most support to go to the students with the highest need, you would not run a 100% grant program that was sent out to communities on a per capita basis. So there is a trade-off, outside of a program that is completely open-ended. I think that's one of the dilemmas we have.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

That's a fundamental shift in that program. It would seem to me that if you're having that kind of fundamental shift, first nations need to be at the table from the outset of the consultation process as partners in the review and in the development of the outcomes. Instead, it looks to me like the consultation is tacked on after a significant amount of work has already been done. Forgive me, but a letter just to the chiefs asking for their input is limited consultation. I know you said that something is going to happen later, but the process will be well under way by the time you get to that stage.

[Neil Yeates]

Well, typically when we engage in consultations, we flesh out an array of options to present to stakeholders and communities.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Why didn't you ask them up front about that? Why wouldn't you include people up front about fleshing out that array of options?

[Neil Yeates]

Well, we're in dialogue all the time. We get a lot of correspondence. We have a lot of contact with first nations and communities on these issues. We know there's a very high degree of interest in this program. That comes, if you like, solicited and unsolicited. The minister wrote to the first nations to acknowledge the level of interest they have in this program and to indicate that, yes, he would certainly be ensuring that there was a full hearing of their perspectives on these issues.

I think we should be very clear, Chair, that we're a long way from any sort of decision on these programs. We're just trying to outline the array of issues we have in front of us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Crowder.

Mr. Bélanger, you have five minutes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Merci.

Mr. Yeates, I want to come back to the $200 million in the schools, and I apologize ahead of time if these questions have been raised while I had to step out for a few minutes.

You said the intent was to basically replace existing schools. So there would be no additional schools. There would be 10 new schools. And 10 is the number, correct?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Now, is there a more defined intent in terms of the envelope, in terms of how it will be apportioned and attributed--for instance, high schools or primary, or combined, or by geographic region?

[Neil Yeates]

I think the answer is only going to be when we're actually able to share the full list with you that the minister will be announcing. What we've done is go through our regional capital planning process to determine the communities most in need of replacement schools. That will vary, but the emphasis tends to be on K to 8. That's most typically what we have available on-reserve.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

The need is presumably bigger than 10 schools, so what assessment grid, what criteria has the department developed in order to arrive at the recommendations it will be making to the minister?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Can you hold that thought for a minute, Mr. Bélanger, and we'll get the question here in a minute.

I just want to inform members that there will be a vote in approximately 30 minutes. We're just about finished.

If there's consensus to continue until shortly before eleven, we'll proceed. Failing that, we will need to in fact adjourn at this point.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Fair enough.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, is there consensus to continue for the next few minutes?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, carry on, Mr. Yeates, then.

[Neil Yeates]

In response to the member, we have a national ranking framework in terms of setting priorities across the country. The first factor deals with the health and safety for existing facilities. Then we look at—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Is it possible to share that in its entirety with the committee?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, we can certainly do that.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But before the announcements?

[Neil Yeates]

Well, as the other members indicated, there is an announcement taking place today, but we can share it right away.

Maybe just to finish off so you can see the factors, it's not that long a list. We do major maintenance projects, where we feel the existing facility and structure should be reinvested in. We look at growth in the school population as a factor as well. We may have communities where overcrowding has developed, so that could be a factor in some communities. And we also look at curriculum requirements. It may be that when a school was initially built there wasn't provision for something that we would then want to take into account in a new project.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Will the analysis that derives from your recommendation be something you're prepared to share with us as well?

[Neil Yeates]

We do regional capital plans, and those are internal to the department.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand they're internal, but I'm asking you if you're prepared to share them with Parliament, to whom you're accountable.

[Neil Yeates]

Member, we will have to check on that and advise you further.