Evidence of meeting #35 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Acting President, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
We had some involvement in the old system.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I think there's a lot of uncertainty about what the role of the new advisory board will look like. When the department was here the other day, my understanding was they invited applications of interest in August, I believe was the timeframe, and they're going to make an announcement shortly about who will be on that advisory board.
4:20 p.m.
Acting President, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
Well, as a matter of fact, this afternoon I did read in the news that they're developing that advisory committee, and I was wondering exactly that, whether Nunavut Tunngavik would actually be considered for the committee.
4:20 p.m.
Laurie Pelly Legal Advisor, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
NTI was asked by the minister's office to put forward names, possibilities. Some of those people may have applied. We don't yet know who was selected, but that was the extent of NTI's involvement. We weren't involved at all in any development of terms of reference for the committee or how it will operate or anything.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay, so that's not clear.
I know ITK also submitted a brief, and they've also raised questions about the details and terms and conditions under which the external advisory board will operate. They're concerned about the lack of resources and capacity. They're concerned about the scope of the north, where this advisory board is supposedly going to help oversee the program.
I'm hearing you saying that you also don't have any of that information about the terms and conditions, the responsibilities, or the resources of that advisory board.
4:20 p.m.
Legal Advisor, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
That's right. In particular it's the resources. We're very concerned that the board be adequately funded over time and have the necessary secretariat and terms of reference to actually monitor and track what's happening with the program over time in terms of eligible items, and also to involve Inuit organizations.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
With reference to country foods, I think you probably are also are aware that when the department and the minister were here the other day, the minister indicated--and their own notes indicate--that as an initial step they're going to look at subsidizing country foods that are in commercially inspected plants. Of course, we know that access to that is very limited in the north.
You made a couple of recommendations around how country foods must be included. Can you say something about that?
4:20 p.m.
Acting President, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
Right now there's very little access to commercial country foods, but where people do share country foods, they often go on community radio to find out who might be travelling from Rankin Inlet to Iqaluit, for example, and whoever is travelling on that certain day will be given a package to deliver to a family. It's the same thing right across the Arctic.
The funny thing is that just a couple of days ago, just before I came here, we got a warning from the RCMP not to accept packages from anybody, because they might have drugs in them. That will eliminate an awful lot of the practice of bringing country foods to different communities, so that has to be done another way.
Although hunger is one thing, there are other things, such as your favourite char. The best char actually comes from Pangnirtung in the central Arctic, for example. The best caribou is from the Keewatin area. The best igunaq, or fermented walrus, is from the Igloolik area. All the different trades that could be happening are all done by volunteers who are willing to take certain foods on the airlines just because they happen to be travelling.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
You commented that the cultural practices are important to be included in how the lists are developed and how the communication is developed around the changes, and I'm not sure that's been reflected in the proposed changes.
4:20 p.m.
Acting President, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
Well, yes, that's true. As a matter of fact, when there are children who actually haven't eaten for a few days, there are people who....
My wife is a teacher, and she happens to be sitting over there. She was telling us that some of the children do go to school, and when the teacher asks them what they have eaten, they say, “Nothing.” A lot of the parents go on the community radio to say, “Well, we will eat maybe in two days, three days. That's why I'm on the radio trying to see if there's anybody interested in buying my carvings so that I can feed my family.” And so on.
Even I was very shocked by this. I thought it was more or less a thing of the past, until my wife started teaching a few years ago. The teachers are actually providing a lot of the food themselves. My wife, Nellie, used to bake bread so that she could feed the children she was teaching.
There are a lot of elements, I think, to the people who are affected, and they are the people who are served by Nunavut Tunngavik. We could incorporate a lot of our knowledge into the program.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I want to thank you for bringing that.
Ms. Pelly, could you respond very quickly?
4:25 p.m.
Legal Advisor, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
I would add that what Mr. Kusugak is saying shows that the sheer magnitude of the problem of hunger in Nunavut shows that the investment from Canada must be much greater. The food mail program is just a small part of that.
Thank you.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I too want to welcome all of the witnesses. And I apologize; I'll be leaving after this. I have another meeting to go to.
I was particularly surprised by what you said about the children. I thank your wife and the other teachers who are obviously invested in making sure that these children and these families are fed. Unfortunately, the Nutrition North Canada program isn't designed to solve all those social programs, although I agree with Ms. Pelly that there is more to do.
What Nutrition North is designed to do is make it affordable for families to have nutritious food. The old program does not allow us to ensure that it's food that is making its way up to the north. In fact, the Minister of Health was here the other day and explained that it costs 23¢ per pound to transport food by sealift, but it costs $2.50 per pound to go by air. And who pays for that extra cost? The consumer pays that. It's built into those diapers that Ms. Novalinga was talking about; it's built into the prices.
What this is designed to do is to ship everything we can possibly ship by sea or by winter road, because it's cheaper—which means that consumers benefit from reduced prices—and only ship by air the items that are perishable; and we subsidize that because we want nutritious food to get there quickly.
And we eliminate the jumping to entry points. As the minister described, there are times up north when they have to ship food to an entry point in Winnipeg just so that it can go back to the north, if they want to use the old program. This is silly. By eliminating entry points, by allowing all of our retailers to use the method they want, a competitive method—they could use your airline, they could us First Air—the retailer negotiates, and the savings come to the consumer. Fresh food gets there without interruption. That's what this is about.
I have heard from Mr. Fogarty in particular that he doesn't know what's involved in the program. I encourage all of you to visit the website, first and foremost. I also encourage you to speak with the Government of Canada. We have a number of people working on this who are dedicated to making sure we get this right.
As we've noted, the engagement process was lengthy. I want to remind you, Mr. Kusugak, that there was further engagement with your community; it wasn't only the one time in May that there was exchange. In fact you mentioned May 2009, but on June 10, INAC officials also appeared before the board of directors and spent an hour explaining the program. There was also an exchange of letters.
It's important that you never feel you can't continue to consult. I welcome you to consult and to give your opinion, because we want to get this right.
Mr. Fogarty, you're concerned about not being included. If you were using the food mail program and providing perishable foods as you were before, you will be able to register. But you have to register, and I can assure you that if that community is on the Nutrition North Canada program, you will be able to use it. And I thank you, because I know you are concerned about quality, and that's why we want to allow you to provide that kind of food to those communities in a fast, rapid way, whereby you don't have to worry about spoilage, etc.
But it's the nutritious food we're going to cover. We're not going to cover Ski-Doo parts any more, we're not going to cover tires any more, because the consumer loses when we are subsidizing abuse of the system. And more often than not, that's what was happening.
I want to ask Ms. Novalinga a question about the prices.
Who has told you what the prices are going to be? The diapers, etc., are non-perishables. They can be brought by sea—isn't that right?—or can be brought by winter roads. They should be 23¢ a pound, not $2.50. They should be lower in price by the time this is done.
Who gave you these forecasted prices—which retailers?
4:30 p.m.
General Manager, Fédération des coopératives du Nouveau-Québec
We're in the cooperative movement. We have 14 co-ops, and I'd like to inform you that when the cooperative movement first started out, they decided that the cost in each community would be the same. The northernmost community, Salluit, will not suffer because it's the furthest north, as opposed to Kuujjuarapik, which is the most southern. They decided then that in order for people to be treated fairly, they would have the same cost.
That was the decision they made, and that's why we are able to know exactly how much it will cost. Maybe in the future they will change, but as it is....
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Yes, I appreciate that, but I believe there may be some errors in the projections. I firmly believe that, because it should cost you less. It just makes sense. If you're shipping, it should be 23¢ a pound as opposed to $2.50 a pound. We're going to make the retailer show us that you're getting the savings, and if they're not passing the savings on to you, we're going to hold them accountable. This is designed to make sure you get value for dollar and get nutritious foods.
I want to answer the question that Ms. Pelly and Mr. Kusugak had about the advisory boards. The boards will operate with funding levels, and they'll have support staff and secretariat services assigned by INAC and will establish annual work plans and schedules. That is in the plan.
Again, I would like you to visit the website, because this affects all of you. This will help you to understand the program better. You're welcome to phone any time to find out more about it.
I reiterate that this is a list of the engagement. Extensive engagement was done.
I again applaud you for being here.
Before I lose all my time, with reference to the RCMP packages, as a police officer on a leave of absence, I would encourage you, sir, never to take packages from people you don't know. It is a danger. We're not here on that, but it was a big concern for me to hear that you might be taking packages from people you don't know onto a plane, because in this day and age that is a very dangerous thing to do.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you, Ms. Glover.
This is the same type of format here, but it's five minutes, a little bit shorter. We'll go to Ms. Neville.
November 17th, 2010 / 4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I too want to add my thanks to those of you who are coming. I'm here to listen to you--not to tell you about the program, but to hear your concerns about the program, and I would appreciate it.
My questions right now are directed to Rita--I'm sorry I can't pronounce your last name--and to Jose. They are around the issue of country food.
We heard from Jose about the importance of country food. Is it as much an issue for you as well, Rita? If so, do you have any suggestions or solutions? I would ask the same question of you: do you have any further advice?
The minister was here at the last meeting, and she certainly was concerned about access to country food. I think we need to explore how we as a committee can make recommendations on that issue to the government.
4:35 p.m.
General Manager, Fédération des coopératives du Nouveau-Québec
In our case, I come from northern Quebec, where we have 14 Inuit communities. We're a smaller group than his is in Nunavut. It is a lot more vast. Because we are a cooperative movement, it's easier for us to move country food from each community to another. A co-op from Akulivik will send some fish down to Umiujaq for the day. It's more formal, and it's easier for us because we're in a smaller area.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Maybe I should ask Jose this question. Do you have models or recommendations that might be applied to a larger setting?
4:35 p.m.
General Manager, Fédération des coopératives du Nouveau-Québec
One thing we do have, although I'm not sure whether they have it in each community, is a huge community walk-in freezer that we use to share our food. Each community has a walk-in freezer. They put the animals that they do not eat at home into the community freezer, and people from the community will be able to take the country food for their own home free of charge.
That's how we do it in our area, but it would be different for them, because they are more vast and there are more communities.