Evidence of meeting #39 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's right.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
So any other claims that are not large claims are not booked against the $2.5 billion?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It has to fall under the specific claims policy. You'll remember that specific claims are a very particular kind of claim about a breach of lawful obligation by the government.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay. Sorry, but there's some confusion, because Mr. Borbey is saying in his testimony that claims under $150 million and claims over $150 million all come out of that $2.5 billion.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's correct, if they're specific claims, yes.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
If they're specific claims. So claims that are negotiated and settled before they go to the tribunal come out of the $2.5 billion.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's right.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Claims that go to the tribunal come out of the $2.5 billion. Claims that go to cabinet for approval come out of the $2.5 billion.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes, if we ever get to one of those.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
But that contradicts the testimony the minister gave on February 6, 2008. On February 6, 2008, the minister said, “Removing these large-value claims from the application of the specific claims policy and the tribunal process means that the $250 million per year of dedicated funding available on an annual basis will be available for the resolution of more specific claims”.
So there is some confusion, because I think many of us who were involved in that legislation understood that $2.5 billion was for claims of $150 million and under, whether they were from the tribunal or from the process negotiated in the department. If you could clarify this for the committee, I would appreciate that, because that's a very serious matter.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I will double-check, but my understanding is the tribunal deals with the claims under $150 million, but the fund is there for both, and the hypothetical scenario is that if we settle Kahnawake or Six Nations or Siksika, then we would go there.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I also have a letter from March 17, 2008, from Minister Strahl, which also indicates that claims of $150 million are to be handled outside the specific claims process.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The negotiating mandates would be, yes.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Again, I think many of us believed those large claims would not be out of that $2.5 billion, because, as you rightly point out, some of those larger claims, once they're settled, wouldn't take very many claims to use up that $2.5 billion. So when you have these hundreds of other specific claims in the process, I question how—
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's the amount of money that was set aside at the time based on what we thought the traffic would be through the tribunal, the inventory of specific claims, and the large claims we know about. If I ever get to go to cabinet saying that we've settled the Six Nations claim, we'll go to the Minister of Finance and say “this is what it will take”, and I'm sure there will be a discussion about providing for it. We'll see.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
So no large claims over $150 million have been settled at this point. Mississauga Credit...?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's a smaller one.
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I mean, these are the really big, thorny—
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
—difficult ones and we would love to settle them. I think they sometimes get confused for everybody. Sometimes there are other kinds of claims and litigation against the government, and when we can settle them, we settle them. They come from a different account, and I know that's not helpful to you as parliamentarians, but--
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I've never had a problem getting financing for a settlement if we reach a settlement. We'll see; all I can tell you is what I've experienced. I'd be delighted to have settlements on those larger claims.
Now, sorry, but you asked a separate question about community infrastructure projects?