Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 23rd, 2010

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Is this being taken out of my time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

No, it's not.

Go ahead.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On a point of order, we are now talking about and hearing witnesses talk substantively about an agreement that we have not had an opportunity to review. It is not available in French for our colleagues or for anybody at committee who wants to see it.

Furthermore, I understand and respect the previous ruling you made, but there's no distinction now between backgrounder documents that we might use for discussions and questions versus a document that we would otherwise procedurally introduce at committee for the purposes of discussion. We're no longer referring to it as committee members; we're listening to witnesses talk substantively about a document that may in fact change the circumstances of what we're discussing.

I'm asking you to reconsider your decision or take it from that perspective in an effort to understand that we are talking now about the document and about its impact on this issue, period.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford.

As I said earlier, I do find it somewhat distressing that the document in question, which, we understand, has just been signed or adopted even earlier today--

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Well, in fact, Mr. Chairman--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Let me finish.

It is in fact very pertinent to today's discussion; however, as you know, the rules for committee documents are that they cannot be distributed to all the committee members unless they are submitted to the clerk, translated, and then provided.

That does not prevent either members or witnesses from making references to these. I would suggest, if members wish, that they use their own questions to put those questions to witnesses if there are certain details they would like to know more about.

As I've said before, the ruling is upheld. We'll go back to Mr. Russell and his question and we'll proceed on that basis. I admit that there is some difficulty with this, and understanding that it is recent, members have the ability, if they wish, to continue consideration of this study at a later time--

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

What's the purpose of the document being tabled at committee, particularly when witnesses are making references to and answering questions based on the pith and substance of the document?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Rickford--

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

What's preventing me from just referring to any document at all and not having consideration made for it being in a second language or for the benefit of the whole committee?

I'm sorry for my outburst.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

There's really nothing that restricts you from doing that. I've made the ruling. I would ask members to respect that. These are the rules we're guided by.

Let's go back to Mr. Russell.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sure we will all have the benefit of seeing the document in print at some point. We're just probing without the benefit of having it in print--for all of us, at least--so I appreciate the minister taking the time to provide more detail on the MOU.

I thank you for that.

I just want to turn to Ms. Cram for a second. Your speaking notes say that “Indian and Northern Affairs Canada decided that it would no longer directly fund the university...” Does that leave open the possibility, if there's some other mechanism by which funding can flow, that the $7.2 million could find its way to First Nations University? Have the ISSP under this special Treasury Board directive...?

[Christine Cram]

Thank you, Mr. Russell.

When the minister met with the delegation from Saskatchewan, including Chief Lonechild and others from the university and the FSIN, he invited, in fact, a proposal through the ISSP. No amount was discussed, and indeed, at that meeting--

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Just to be clear, though, there was $7.2 million being provided by the Government of Canada through a special Treasury Board “directive”--

[Christine Cram]

Right.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

--if you want to use that word, out of the ISSP. Is that right?

[Christine Cram]

It's $7.3 million and there is a total of $22 million in ISSP.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Yes, I'm aware of all of that.

[Christine Cram]

So the $7.3 million is part of the $22 million and when--

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I'm aware of all of that.

[Christine Cram]

Okay. Sorry.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

But you say that you invite a proposal and then you say the proposal must deal with the terms and conditions of the program, that is not necessarily how to receive the money out of the ISSP in first place. Is that right?

[Christine Cram]

There is a special Treasury Board approval that the department received in order to fund core funding at the First Nations University.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

But is the minister inviting a proposal from FNU or some other mechanism for core funding out of the ISSP for FNU?

[Christine Cram]

No, he invited a proposal under the ISSP program, but it would have to meet the criteria of proposal-driven ISSP.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

But that doesn't include core funding.