Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 23rd, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

Let's go now to Mr. Clarke for five minutes.

Mr. Clarke, go ahead.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the committee for coming in here today.

I'll be asking Chief Lonechild and Mr. Turk some questions.

But first, a very disturbing comment was said here--that I don't care. That's further from the truth. I'm first nations. I care. I hear the opposition, when they're travelling throughout my riding...that I don't care. I do care what goes on in my riding, in my province.

Education is very important. My wife's a teacher. I'm very proud to say that I've had two schools built in my riding of northern Saskatchewan, two new additions, skills training, and housing for Northlands College. This isn't a racial issue. This is about education.

Now, Mr. Turk, when I hear about the accreditation being lost in 2008 by the First Nations University of Canada, what is the underlying factor that caused it? And when...or have they received their accreditation? Is it back in place as we speak, or is it still being worked on? Where are you on the timeline for that?

[James L. Turk]

I'd just like to clarify one thing. There is no accreditation of universities in Canada, because almost all universities are public institutions chartered by acts of government.

What I referred to is the Canadian Association of University Teachers. When a university violates a fundamental principle that we feel is essential for any university to uphold and we are unable to get them to resolve it satisfactorily, we censure the institution. This is a recommendation that faculty not take jobs there, that events not be held there, and so forth.

We censured the First Nations University over the issue of governance. As the All Chiefs' Task Force pointed out, as the Saskatchewan commission pointed out, this structure of governance was highly politicized, very large, and inappropriate. That was fixed by a decision of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, under the leadership of Chief Lonechild, and that board was dissolved. A wholly new structure, consistent with the All Chiefs' Task Force and recommendations, was put in its place. So that was dealt with.

WIth regard to our censure, the censure is imposed by the council of the Canadian Association of University Teachers, which is a body of representatives from all of the universities across the country. It meets twice a year. It's meeting next on April 22 to 25. The academic freedom and tenure committee and the executive of CAUT have unanimously recommended to council that censure be lifted. It will be lifted on April 22.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Okay.

There was a mention of the governance agreement being signed here. Is that the same thing as the MOU?

[Chief Guy Lonechild]

As we speak, the memorandum of understanding is being signed by the Province of Saskatchewan; it's signed by me. It is also going to be followed by a financial management agreement, a liaison agreement, and of course a transition agreement.

That is the overall umbrella agreement for us in this new partnership.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Chief, you've mentioned about your platform and accountability for First Nations University. Now, we know about the financial misappropriations that took place from the previous administration, and that was your main platform.

For a follow-up here, what is the position of FSIN now to make those people accountable for the possible fraud that took place? What steps are being allocated as first nations and also from the FNU to follow up on making those people accountable?

[Chief Guy Lonechild]

Number one, I think the board has taken the steps to fire the president and ensure that proper measures will be taken on behalf of the First Nations University of Canada. They've demonstrated that there is, I think, a willingness to ensure full accountability and transparency, that any and all funds that may have been misused or misappropriated be reported to our partners. We've done so, both with the provincial government.

I think we looked at ensuring that if people have done wrong, then the proper steps will be taken on behalf of the board.

I'll let our working group member speak a little bit about that and expand on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We're really out of time, so Ms. Myo, just a very short 15 seconds.

[Dorothy Myo]

Thank you.

On the governance, I want to say that the chiefs in assembly made a commitment on March 9 that they will be dealing with this and that they will make the appropriate amendments to the legislation that govern the First Nations University to ensure that it's depoliticized and that we have a competency-based, skill-based board of governors that will oversee the university operations and management.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

I know that Mr. Lundy wanted to get in, but we'll just have to hold that thought, Mr. Lundy, and we'll get you back on the next round. There'll still be time.

Do you have a question, Mr. Lévesque?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome to all of the witnesses.

I truly sympathize with you. There was a time when I really did not like you very much, because first nations members made up one-third of my community. Every time we initiated positive action, they made it difficult, as you witnessed firsthand, and put up additional roadblocks. Because of the barrier that you erected, we managed to skirt the problem and put in place different measures to ensure the program's long-term survival. That was something that had to be done, because our first nations members had to leave their cultural environment in order to take courses that aligned with their culture.

Despite the fact that they had to leave to study, many of them speak English and write in English. They speak their native language, but are unable to read or write in that language. The gap between the two nations is wide indeed, because people still do not understand each other. The First Nations University of Canada was a critically important institution, regardless of the start-up costs and the mistakes that may have been made along the way.

Earlier, Diane spoke of how she had left her community to pursue her studies in environmental sciences and to receive a culturally sensitive education.

With regard to the university's administrative practices, what administrative powers has the First Nations University of Canada ceded to the University of Regina?

[Dr. Vianne Timmons]

In the new shared management agreement, the University of Regina will oversee all financial interactions that are done with First Nations University. We will serve as an oversight umbrella for the financial dealings of First Nations University.

That's a huge concession from the first nations community, and through that we will also work hard to build the capacity of members of First Nations University and first nations people to get the skills they need and the knowledge they need to continue operations. We will be working on mentorship, working with staff, working with faculty to build the administrative skills within the federated college.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I see. Thank you.

[Dorothy Myo]

Thank you.

In the partnership that we have outlined between the University of Regina and the First Nations University of Canada, which is supported by the FSIN as well as the Province of Saskatchewan, we have agreed to have what we are calling a shared management stewardship model. Thereby, over a period of four years we will work with the university and draw on their expertise and that of many of the professionals required to help us with administration and management, as well as board development and support in that regard. This is in addition to the budgeting, the financial, oversight that they will provide in that four-year period to the university. It will be a case of having an integrated approach to the management and the finances of the university, and also the board of governors will undertake a period of board training and development to ensure that at the end of the four years we will be at a stage where we can do our work.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

Mr. Lundy would also like to respond.

Mr. Lundy.

[Randy Lundy]

There are two things. I'll try to be quick, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to address a comment that Mr. Clarke made earlier. He suggested that this is not a racial issue. I would agree; it is not a racial issue, but it is a cultural issue.

Where did Mr. Clarke go?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

He's still here.

[Randy Lundy]

It is a cultural issue. We are talking about the only first nations-owned and -operated university in the country, so while the difficulties may have been financial and administrative, you can't divorce that from the fact that this is a culturally unique institution and therefore it is a cultural issue, if not a racial issue.

The last thing is I'd like to thank Mr. Lévesque for his question. He was asking about cross-cultural learning and understanding and cooperation, in part. This new shared co-management agreement between the University of Regina and the First Nations University of Canada is a model that we can all learn from in terms of cross-cultural cooperation and understanding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to Mr. Rickford for five minutes.

That will be followed by Madam Crowder and Mr. Dreeshen.

Mr. Rickford, for five minutes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming today.

I want to encourage us to have a conversation here rather than using tones that take us toward somewhere where we can't come to a resolution we can all live with. In fairness, we're dealing with a unique set of circumstances. The federal government, as you all know, is not normally in the business of providing core funding for universities, and so it goes a long way to demonstrate historically the commitment and gives a moment for pause as we deal with what appear to be some fairly profound and systemic issues that, in fairness, other members of the committee have conceded to perhaps, or acknowledged, depending on your understanding of what they're saying, and by admissions of witnesses here today.

That said, I'd like to bring some clarity to an issue in which I have a particular interest. Those questions will be directed to Mr. Turk.

I'm reading from a document from your website that is a chronology of the events for the First Nations University of Canada. To the extent that you're familiar with that and just by way of review, it appears that in 2008, after three years of waiting for the implementation of the All Chiefs' Task Force governance recommendations, the Canadian Association of University Teachers in fact voted unanimously to censure First Nations University governance, over governance and academic freedom issues. Is that true?

[James L. Turk]

Yes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

So it was both governance and academic freedom issues?

[James L. Turk]

May I comment on that?

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Absolutely.

[James L. Turk]

Okay.

They are intertwined. That is, when the governance structure allows those on the board, or the chair of the board, to interfere directly to seize computer files of faculty and so on, it threatens their academic freedom. So they're not “disentangleable”, if I can use that word.