Evidence of meeting #4 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Guy Lonechild  Chief, Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations
Diane J. Adams  Representative, First Nations University of Canada Student Association
Vianne Timmons  President and Vice-Chancellor, University of Regina
Randy Lundy  Chair, First Nations University Academic Council
James L. Turk  Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Dorothy Myo  Special Advisor to the Chief, Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations
Gary Boire  Vice-President Academic, University of Regina
Rob Norris  Minister of Advanced Education, Employment and Labour, Government of Saskatchewan
Christine Cram  Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Del Anaquod  Chief Operating Officer, First Nations University of Canada
Lorne Dennis  As an Individual
Nikki Macdonald  Executive Director, Government Relations, University of Victoria
Chris Lalonde  As an Individual

7:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

It doesn't include core funding, no.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL

While they need core funding to continue, you're telling them to apply to a program where you don't provide core funding.

7:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

But under the program, and I'll just give an example, you can fund particular programs. So there are elements that the First Nations University currently undertakes that would be eligible for the ISSP program.

7:20 p.m.

Liberal

Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL

Would you not agree, though, that they're saying they need core funding, this is the way this university needs to go forward, and what the minister is offering is basically nothing in terms of making sure that this university continues to survive? You're offering them something that does not meet the need.

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

That's it, Mr. Russell.

Can you just respond briefly to that last question? Then we'll move on.

7:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

I would just note that on Sunday evening the department did receive a plan from the First Nations University of Canada. We are currently reviewing it.

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you, Mr. Russell.

The next member to take the floor is Mr. Lemay, who will also have seven minutes.

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Minister Norris, good evening. You have heard—

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Look at the image over here.

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Minister, since you are on television to my right, I will be looking in that direction.

Mr. Minister, you have heard the statement made by the deputy minister of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. Since I am a lawyer in my spare time, I am going to read you something. Ms. Cram, you can correct me if I am wrong.

There is a program related to native studies meant for supporting core operations. It is a $22 million program, and $7.3 million of that funding was allocated to the First Nations University. It has been announced that the program will be cut.

Mr. Minister, today I saw certain documents that I was not supposed to see because they were not translated. I saw them anyway. I saw the likely agreement. We cannot talk about the agreement. We will not talk about it, Mr. Minister, but you are on the right track.

That being said, the Deputy Minister said in her statement that just like other eligible institutions, the First Nations University of Canada is always encouraged to submit proposals for funding consideration, provided that the proposals are within program guidelines.

Mr. Minister, here is my question for the deputy minister. Ms. Deputy Minister, do you believe that the First Nations University was until recently following the program guidelines and that, if not for administrative problems, it would still be entitled to the sum of $7.3 million?

7:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

That is a very difficult question, Mr. Lemay. It is clear—

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Let's try to answer the question tactfully.

7:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

Okay, thanks.

Clearly, there were challenges involved in the situation of which you speak. That is why the department decided to allocate funds for this year, 2009-2010, based on performance. In my statement, I have talked about the relationship between these funds and the delivery of specific services.

We decided to proceed in this manner in 2009-2010 because we were not receiving the necessary documents on time. As I have explained, though the documents were due in June and in January, those that were due in June were received in March. In the end, both sets of documents were received in March.

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

What if by chance there was an agreement between First Nations in Saskatchewan and Saskatchewan's Ministry of Advanced Education, Employment and Labour which would perhaps meet your requirements? What if this agreement was spelled out in a document that we are not allowed to talk about and that you might get a glimpse of soon?

Would it be possible for the government to set some money aside, perhaps around $7 million, to come up with a solution after talking to the minister? I am certain that the minister who has been listening to our discussion will contact your minister by phone over the course of the next few hours, unless the $7.3 million sum has already been allocated or distributed.

7:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

Thank you, Mr. Lemay. No decision has been made with regard to the $7.3 million in question.

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Listen to this, Mr. Minister.

7:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

No decision has been made. It is possible that there is a memorandum of understanding or other agreements. That is our understanding of this situation. It would perhaps be possible to approve a proposal for the Indian Studies Support Program, but the recipient would have to be a partner. Perhaps there could be a partnership with the University of Regina.

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Therefore, all is not lost. There is still work to be done. Mr. Minister, I wish you good luck.

Good luck to the First Nations University.

I have no further questions, unless you would like to add something, Ms. Cram.

7:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

Yes, but—

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

This “but” worries me.

7:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

I mean to say that it all depends on the proposal, and the proposal must be within the guidelines. We will not know how this will turn out until we have received the proposal and analyzed it.

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

I agree with you, but there is still a possibility. Thank you.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

Ms. Crowder now has seven minutes.

7:25 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for appearing today. I'm going to have a question for Ms. Cram and for Minister Norris.

Ms. Cram, just to clarify, because I'm less optimistic than monsieur Lemay, my understanding of what you're saying is that the ISSP money, the $7.3 million, will be allocated to the Province of Saskatchewan for post-secondary education; however, it will be proposal-driven and will not provide core funding.

7:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Christine Cram

I would say, Ms. Crowder, no, I'm not saying... There have been no decisions made about who would be recipients of the $7.3 million.