Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2011

[Carolyn Loeppky]

When you refer specifically to the enhanced prevention framework, which is something that is being implemented in many jurisdictions, as I indicated earlier, the question is broader for Manitoba than the enhanced prevention framework, because we have included the entire spectrum of what we offer in the funding model. One of the things we talked about earlier was that there are some criteria or conditions set out that need to be looked at on an ongoing basis.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I appreciate that, and we're going to look at this to make sure that's the case.

What are the consequences in Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan?

[Arlene Johnson]

We're in the third year of our enhanced funding and we're going to end in a deficit this year. That's going to continue, of course, as long as we're using the enhanced formula.

This leaves us in a bad situation. It is already our experience in our foster care system that we don't have equitable services, as the province has, although in Nova Scotia the provincial Department of Community Services has been very good to us and supports our efforts to secure foster homes and training. This impacts upon service delivery to children. Our children are not receiving the same types of services as our counterpart in Nova Scotia receives. Yes, it leaves our children—

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I just have 20 seconds left.

[Arlene Johnson]

I'm sorry.

It leaves our children at further risk, and we're not able to access the same services because we don't have the funding available to do it.

[Dwayne Gaudry]

You're going to get large increases and lose more and more culture, and you'll lose more and more children to the system. That's the end result, if you don't take care of it.

[Elsie Flette]

We have one agency now that already has 14% of their child population in care, so all of their money is going to go immediately to protection services. They have communities in which 40% of their child population is in care. The rest of Canada would be outraged. They couldn't fill the kindergarten class last year because all of those children were in care and out of the community. That's what's going to happen, if we don't get this right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We have to leave it there.

Thank you, Mr. Russell.

I have one brief question to Ms. Loeppky.

In your opening comments you referred at one point to the federal percentage formula used in Manitoba as a target number of around 7%, or said that the federal funding equates to that. I'm assuming that's referring to percentage of population in care. Then you went on to say that the provincial component uses the actual numbers.

Could you expand on that, so that we're clear on what distinction to draw between the two? You cited some other numbers in that argument, and I want to make sure we have a good grasp of that explanation.

[Carolyn Loeppky]

In the funding formula, the federal government uses 7% of the child population within the jurisdiction—so it's not of the children in care—to calculate the funding for the different agencies. As Elsie said, in at least two to three agencies right now, we know that the population being served in child welfare is higher than that. For the provincial government, on an annual basis, we look at the actual number of children in care and rework our ratios and our formulas based on the actual number of children in care.

One of our goals, in looking at the new process that we have, is to look at ways to better support families so that children don't have to come into care. We've had some preliminary discussions about what we call a reinvestment strategy, so that resources that were formerly put into children in care, into maintenance, could be looked at in a different way to increase the resources we would have for prevention services.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I appreciate that clarification.

I don't have any other speakers on the list. At this point, I'd like to thank each of you for your presentations and for your responses to members' questions this afternoon.

I'm sorry, Mr. Cameron, you had something else to add?

[Howard Cameron]

Mr. Chairperson, again, we thank you for having this opportunity to be here. In my culture, when we talk about children, they're sacred. Their future is in our hands. They don't have the power to make the decisions that we are able to, to guide them to that good place. On behalf of my community, on behalf of the first nations in Saskatchewan, we want to offer the chairperson and the honoured members this gift of tobacco on behalf of our children in Saskatchewan and all of Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, sir.

We thank you.

Thank you very much, members.

We'll be back here Thursday morning at 8:45. We have two hours set aside for Nutrition North Canada, subsequent to our last meeting.

Mr. Russell, you had another point, sorry.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Yes, Mr. Chair, I'm not sure if you.... I had a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Go ahead, Mr. Russell.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Can we get a clear sense of what has been negotiated with Manitoba, Alberta, and Nova Scotia in terms of what's in there, the formulas, the assumptions, what's covered in one province and others? There seems to be some variability around these things.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You're talking about the enhanced prevention agreement?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You're asking to put a question to the department to provide that information?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Yes. Is that okay? I don't think it's readily available. They just announced frameworks. I asked the analyst this question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Is there agreement that we make that request of the department, then?

I saw Ms. Neville's hand up, and Ms. Crowder's.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Could you ask for any research they did upon which they established the program?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Background research that compelled the design of the enhanced prevention program?

Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

It would be helpful to have the evaluation of the Alberta model that was mentioned by the witnesses, because that's the enhanced prevention model. So it would be useful to look at what the preliminary evaluation on that was.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. This is our last meeting with witnesses for this particular study, so we'll get that question to the department and we'll have to wait for that to come back.

You'll recall that if we do finish the Nutrition North report in sufficient time on Thursday, we will need to be prepared to provide instructions to the analysts on this report as well on Thursday, if there's time. If we don't have time, it will move to the next meeting.

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Have a good morning and remainder of the day.

Our meeting is adjourned. Merci beaucoup.