Evidence of meeting #21 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was management.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Just quickly with regard to capacity-building for the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, some of the Aboriginal Affairs colleagues have taken our training.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
Mr. Bevington, just for your information, I think the answer to your question is on page 2 of the presentation, where they outline the seven regional land association chapters.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
I'm familiar with that, but I wanted to put it in comparison with the total number of first nations, and I got that.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
In Ontario it's 27 versus 128 first nations across the province.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Good. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that. Thank you, Mr. Bevington.
Mr. Boughen, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you, Chair.
Let me add my voice to my colleagues' in welcoming the panel here this afternoon. We appreciate the time you're giving us. It certainly gives us an opportunity to learn much more about your work in land management.
Talking about that, what is the type and incidence of different land use activities on a reserve--for instance, residential, commercial, and public use? Are there unique land management issues that pertain to different types of these activities? As well, as land managers, where do you see the difference happening with residential, commercial, and public use?
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
There's a level of how you deal with those types of land transactions.
Aaron, Joe, you're working directly with that. Is there something you can add to that?
Director, Chair of the Saskatchewan Aboriginal Lands Technicians, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Go ahead, Joe.
Chair, Atlantic Region Aboriginal Lands Association; Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
That actually falls under a community's land-use plan. The community identifies the common needs of the land; this gives the administration or the guidance for the community in terms of their traditional lands, for the residential lands as well as commercial development, industry, and agricultural areas of first nation lands. This process brings the community into discussion about natural resources and management, environmental protection and management, and any other issues that arise out of that.
That includes setting guidelines and the values of management of lands, resources, and the environment. The community may choose to provide input into compliance management and ensure that the model—also called enforcement—reflects traditional values in these common chosen areas.
The main thing is that it gives the chief and council—your administration or your elected officials—the right to govern, and to say okay, this is how you will do your sections of areas, such as those designated commercial, residential, or recreational. It gives them the power to oversee that, and that's what's really needed at a first nation level: community land-use plans.
In my area, the Atlantic area, there are three reserves that use land-use planning and it works out perfectly. They know exactly where everything is. In Conne River, Newfoundland, they have land-use planning. They did it before they were established as a first nation and now it's working hand in hand.
There's one first nation in Nova Scotia on the other side of Halifax, the Millbrook First Nation, and they have a land-use plan. Everything is working well there.
The other one is in Cape Breton. That's Membertou. It's a prime example. You must have seen them on the TV. They had boxing matches down there. They have set their land-use plan. It's in place. It's working hand in hand with council, the elected officials, and everything else. It works really well.
More should be allowed. First nations should be getting into that practice.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Okay, Joe. Picking up on that, I have question number two. What are some key characteristics or principles of effective and efficient land management, and how do we facilitate it on reserve land?
Chair, Atlantic Region Aboriginal Lands Association; Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Well, to answer your question, it's community-based land planning. That's one. Another is good land management. The other one is natural resources management. Of course, anything above or below the ground is the crown's responsibility.
Environmental management, which is a key thing for first nations now, is something that wasn't taken into account at first. Now it's really being emphasized, because the environment is the big thing.
The other one is compliance management: making sure that it's being monitored, that it's being enforced. Make sure your contractors and your first nation are following that type of environmental protection. We have to save our land for our children, who are coming up in the near future.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you very much.
I apologize. It seems that you may have had an additional question, but your time is up, Mr. Boughen.
Ms. Hughes, for five minutes.
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Thank you very much.
I'm going to continue on the capacity-building, because I think that's extremely important. You flagged it as needing to be improved.
I'm just wondering about it. First of all, how long does it take to train somebody? You have your level one and your level two, and when I'm looking at your numbers here, I see that since 2005 you have 68 first nation land managers who have been certified. That's only about ten a year.
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
It's a two-year training program. They take the level one in one year. For those students who have successfully completed level one, we get them in level two.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
So just on that note, then, how much of a budget do you get? I'm assuming you're limited by the size of budget you have in order to be able to train. Also, what is the demand out there for capacity-building? You've talked about that.
Obviously there's a lack of funding there to train the number of land managers you need, so what's your current budget, and how much would you need? What number would you estimate would be sufficient to train land managers in order to try to bridge that gap?
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
I'm not aware of the budget the university receives from the Department of Aboriginal Affairs. Our training budget to deliver level-two technical training is about $261,000, and that's to train 20 first nations.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
So definitely there is a lack of funding, given the fact that obviously first nations don't have that amount of money. Is that what you're saying? If INAC is paying for one, then if something happens--if that person dies or moves on, or there is a change in first nations management, or the chief in council was changed and they want some change there--they're not able to have that person trained?
I just wonder if you could elaborate on that. You talked about management tools and systems. Could you elaborate on that a little bit as to your needs there?
Also, just on the training part, I forgot about the literacy as well. Is that an issue? Is literacy a stumbling block for many?
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Yes, that does have its challenges, and there are supports within the university to deal with that. By the time we get them into our level two, they've improved.
I'm glad you asked what direct things, other than capacity, we need in terms of our additional resources.
There are two direct examples of things we want to provide to support our land management. To help within our land management comprehensive executing and land-use planning would be the geographic information system, GIS. I am sure our colleagues in the municipalities--the planners and the property managers--appreciate this tool, because it was this tool that would have set the foundation for this beautiful city of Ottawa. We need this kind of technology. It's a decision-making tool and a mapping tool, and it gives you the ability to see and analyze layers of information based on location.
I think Jennifer may have referred to this technology as one of the things we need. If anything, we should have a GIS. That would help us determine the land use, the elevation of streets, and so on.
NDP
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
First of all, it's not funded through any program. There are bits and pieces here and there, but one of our challenges is the cost of the technology as well as a long-term commitment for a technician to operate it, and I think you can appreciate that.
I know, Aaron, you used the technology. What were your challenges in terms of cost?
Director, Chair of the Saskatchewan Aboriginal Lands Technicians, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
It's something we had looked at with the Saskatchewan Aboriginal Land Technicians. In the province I believe there are about 74 first nations. I put together a plan to get all our first nations in Saskatchewan trained with the GIS.
The GIS software is $6,000. The training is an extra $3,000 for four days, and to do all 74 first nations in Saskatchewan would be about $260,000, which is what I had worked out. I couldn't find any program that would give us that kind of money to train our first nations land managers to utilize this software. The benefits of using the software are endless. They could do a lot with that software, but financially we can't do it. I can't even find an organization to help us with that kind of funding for that software.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Ms. Hughes. You're out of time.
I'm going to use the chair's discretion, Ms. Duncan. We're on the last questions here, and I just want to give you a little bit of time for a final question.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I have just a quick follow-up.
I really want to thank you for the testimony. It's been really informative. I'm really impressed by the work you're doing, both paid and voluntary--and it sounds like a lot is voluntary.
I'm wondering if you have a strategy and the resources for reaching out to the first nations not yet engaged or trained, and if you have an idea or a forecast into the future on how long it might take to bring everybody on board in the 600-plus first nations.
Chair, Ontario Aboriginal Lands Association; Director, National Aboriginal Lands Managers Association
Speaking on behalf of the Ontario Aboriginal Lands Association, on an annual basis we send out our information packages to first nations who do not belong to our association yet. Sometimes, unfortunately, that package doesn't reach the right person. We can only address the information package to chief and council. If the chief receives it and they don't pass it on to the right person, or that community does not have a lands manager, that information just sits there.
We also seek the assistance of our colleagues at the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, at the regional offices. We ask them, “Can you give us a list of communities within your region who you think would benefit from being a part of the Ontario Aboriginal Lands Association—somebody who's new in the business, perhaps, or somebody who's heading out the door?” We look for new recruits on an annual basis.
In October of 2011, after being in place for 12 years, we were able to get funding to have our very first regional gathering. We had it in Sault Ste. Marie. We were targeting the first nations in the north, because a lot of our members right now are in the southern part of Ontario. We were trying to target the northern communities, where we know, as I mentioned before, they are doing land functions but don't get funded for them.
It's up to each regional association to do that recruitment initiative, but we try to do it on an annual basis.