Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 6th, 2012

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I have some great examples here if you'd like to hear them.

We have a sewage treatment plant commissioned in Wagmatcook, in Nova Scotia. Also, the treatment plant for the Sheshatshiu in Newfoundland and Labrador was completed and commissioned this month.

Kahnawake's new water treatment system was completed in February. I was there a week before they turned it on for the local residents. They will have better water than Montreal, actually, which is right across the St. Lawrence from them.

We have a new water treatment plant in Moose Deer Point in Manitoba—the Sagkeeng in Manitoba.

Those are just some examples, and there's whole bunch more: Red Sucker Lake, Norway House, St. Theresa Point, and Garden Hill.

For those Island Lake regions that we've heard so much about through the Winnipeg Free Press and a lot of media stories, this winter we've been delivering materials over the winter roads in order to improve water and waste-water services there. We're going to be connecting 100 houses, which starts to address their backlog, as well as sending in water delivery and sewage trucks. We're setting priorities as we can.

I know that you'd like to hear all about Saskatchewan, where I have nine first nations that received everything from sewage pumping stations, raw-water-pumping upgrades, water treatment plant expansions, a lagoon and sewage pumping station, a regional water system completion, a water treatment plant upgrade, and water supply and water mains completion, to a new water treatment plant that was opened.

This is all great work that's addressing what was a major, major backlog. We've been able to address a lot of priorities.

I was here in this House of Commons when Kashechewan had its major issue, and I can tell you that we are at a point where we have set enough priorities and got enough work done that the major issues are dealt with—and we're going to keep at it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Genest-Jourdain, for five minutes.

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

How are you, minister?

First, I want to thank you for mentioning the effort made in introducing the motion on education for first nations.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you. That was your motion.

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

Under the Indian and Northern Affairs heading in the main estimates 2012-2013, reference is made to a budgetary increase of 2%, an increase of $48.2 million in the area of education.

Based on your assessment of the situation, do you believe these figures are consistent with the recommendations set out in the report of the national panel on first nations elementary and secondary education, or are you simply waiting to finish reading the report so you can make an adjustment?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you for that question.

Of course I can't pre-empt the budget discussion and what's going to be in the budget.

The whole issue of educational funding I know has been an important discussion point. It's interesting that the 2% was actually an accelerator at a time when other departments were cut back to no accelerator during the Liberal administration. So the conversation has changed considerably over the years.

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

We also see that budget cuts of nearly $200,000 will be made in the area of post-secondary education.

Can the minister and his government explain why, on the one hand, they seem to want to encourage access to post-secondary education for first nations youth but, on the other hand, are simply announcing that these budget cuts will be arbitrarily made?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I understand that post-secondary education in the mains is the same as the previous year. I'm not....

[Michael Wernick]

We haven't changed the program, so I'm not sure what the question is.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

It would be fair to say, though, that results from the post-secondary education program have not been as fruitful as we would like them to be. We've put a lot of priority on looking at K to 12, and I believe we're going to have to look at the post-secondary envelope as well. I think we were looking at something like 27,000 recipients not too many years ago, and now it's considerably less.

It's very difficult for us to actually measure outcomes, but what we do know is that the outcomes are less than satisfactory given that post-secondary intake should be people who have a pretty good level of education, having obviously gotten past high school, and who are motivated to go to a post-secondary institution.

So it's something we're looking at.

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

You have one minute.

[Jonathan Genest-Jourdain, NDP, Manicouagan, QC]

I'm going to share my speaking time with Mr. Bevington.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

You have just less than one minute, Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you.

Thank you for coming in front of us, Mr. Minister. I have a number of questions. Hopefully I'll get to my own round, when I can ask you a few more questions.

The first question is dealing with the growth in the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development's operational costs. From 2006 to 2011 there was a 98% increase in operational costs. That compares to increases in the first nations program for education of 7%. Is this the formula that you think should work in this department?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Unfortunately, Minister, we have about five seconds left for the answer. Perhaps you can give a quick answer; otherwise, you can answer during Mr. Bevington's next round.

[Michael Wernick]

Perhaps I can help the member, just very quickly.

The operating vote of the department includes the cheques to people who have come out of the residential schools agreement. It includes the remediation of contaminated sites. It includes the cheques that go to people under court awards and settlements.

So this is not actually the running costs of the department, which are under very, very tight control.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

Mr. Seeback, you have five minutes.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, I was wondering if we could switch a little bit to a different topic. Perhaps you could take this opportunity to update us on the status of devolution in the Northwest Territories.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you very much.

That's an important subject. We've seen great changes in the north. We saw devolution in the Yukon in 1993, I believe. In a sense, we have a form of devolution in Nunavut from the standpoint that the land question is resolved. We're putting in place the last piece of legislation, hopefully this year.

The Northwest Territories still has unresolved land claims. The Northwest Territories government expressed strong desire to move forward with devolution. There have been devolution discussions for a number of years. We came to the point where we had the signing of an agreement in principle in January of 2011.

Senior officials from the territory and from the federal government have been in serious negotiations since that time. We'll know better by year-end how much longer these negotiations will take in order to get to a final agreement, but I would anticipate that we're looking at the end of calendar year 2013, possibly.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

What steps are currently being taken to address some of the problems we've seen with the regulatory review process in the north?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

How should I begin?

I think this committee was very well aware of the McCrank report. Mr. McCrank appeared before the committee. He was commissioned by my predecessor to produce a report on regulatory reform in the Northwest Territories.

This came about because of the obvious disincentives in that jurisdiction with regard to investor confidence, security, and certainty, which were having negative consequences. I was at the prospectors and developers conference in Toronto on the weekend. It's very clear that the NWT is not getting the exploration moneys that Yukon is getting or that Nunavut is getting. Both Yukon and Nunavut were running around $400 million last year, and the Northwest Territories was running at about $80 million.

This is a major shift from the situation of not very many years ago, when Yukon and the NWT would be about the same and Nunavut wasn't on the map. All of the rationale and all of the assumptions of the 2007 study by McCrank, which suggested some very significant regulatory reforms would be needed in the NWT, are still true today, if not more so.

We are working to create a better regulatory reform environment in the NWT. I met with the aboriginal leadership last week. I met with industry this weekend in Toronto. We want to combine three of the land and water boards into one. We want to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. We want to include in that act timelines for environmental assessments.

All of that was delivered. We have our own consultation protocols, which we think are meeting our constitutional obligations as well as our legal obligations, and which are also consistent with the settled land claim agreements we have in the Northwest Territories. We're moving ahead, and we hope to have that all in place, once again, by the end of this year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Bevington, go ahead for five minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Just to follow up on those comments you made, Mr. Minister, you know very well that a consensus of northerners have said that the idea of a single land and water board is not one they support. We've heard that consistently from almost every group, including the Government of the Northwest Territories and land claims groups.

There are many other reasons for difficulties in the Northwest Territories. One of them is the failure to settle the rest of the land claims. Certainly that should be a priority of this government if it wants to move ahead with development in the north.

My question, though, is a little more practical in nature. In the last budget the government said it would be investing in clean energy for northern communities. You said in August that the ecoENERGY program for aboriginal and northern communities would be renewed, yet on January 29 the government said that program was going to end immediately.

With the price of fuel oil, which is the main source of energy for northern communities, skyrocketing, and with the cost of doing business up there so high, why is this government moving away from sensible programs to reduce the cost of energy through efficiency, and why aren't you looking at investing in clean energy for our communities?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'll address the energy question second, I think.

I disagree with the premise of your question on the land and water boards.