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Evidence of meeting #28 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afis.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #28 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afis.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Forestry Association
I think this goes more to the land use planning issue than the forest-based-development approach. We know that many first nations in Canada are engaged in comprehensive land use planning processes, both on their own and jointly with provincial governments and other players in the forest conservation area of activity, broadly defined.
Certainly first nations are interested in preserving wildlife values. Many are engaged specifically in caribou management issues across the country. In the forest management guidelines that we developed through our association and that we've put forth to first nations across the country, we certainly address major wildlife management issues as a matter of process.
Specifically, we as an association are not really engaged in any of the specific wildlife management issues, such as woodland caribou, but we know that first nations are, and we're hoping that the processes they engage in, particularly comprehensive land use planning processes, will address the wildlife issues on their behalf through that process.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Now, for all of you as organizations, just in regard to—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Sorry, Mr. Clarke, I need to jump in. Your time is up. I should have jumped in before you started that.
Ms. Duncan, we'll turn it over to you for five minutes.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you. You share the frustration, right? There are too many people, too many good questions. We'll have to have some of them back again.
I want to commend the forest association. You definitely sound like the wave of the future. I have to speak for my colleague Mr. Bevington; his number one interest is in looking for cleaner sources of local-sourced fuels for the north, such as wood pellets. He is the member for the Northwest Territories. It's very interesting. It certainly is something that sounds like it's well worth pursuing, and not necessarily just in the form of what we're doing here. I am hoping that soon we'll be able to move to the second phase, where we're going to be looking at the potential for development and benefit to first nations communities from developments on their “traditional lands”.
I share some of the concerns of Mr. Clarke, although possibly not for the same reasons, about the level of engagement of first nations peoples in discussions about conservation areas and the setting aside of areas. Definitely when we're setting aside large tracts of forest land—and I've mentioned this previously in committee meetings—negotiations between certain industry sectors and the environmental community, or with other levels of government, are not complete unless they've also included the first nations' interest at that table. I know there have been some issues expressed by some of the first nations, particularly in northern Ontario, that the agreement for setting aside the area for the protection of the boreal forest didn't necessarily include them adequately.
On the other hand, we have to look at how we can't end up with development scenarios where we're serving the needs of one first nation or the preservation of a species at the risk to another first nation, and that's certainly what's happening with the woodland caribou, where essentially both federal and provincial governments appear to be writing off the herds in Alberta to enable the oil sands development, which is potentially putting at risk developments for first nations in northern Saskatchewan and over to Manitoba and so forth. It's very important that when we're talking about economic development into the future and conservation strategies, we make sure that first nations' interests are at the table. I'm finding it very helpful to discover your association and to learn more about it. I hope that we can follow up more and I look forward to any further information you can provide.
Certainly one of the waves of economic benefits for first nations for the future is getting into the alternative energy future. One previous witness said they've been frustrated that they haven't been able to process the addition of lands to their reserve. They had an agreement with a company to put in place a solar farm, so we need to be making sure that our government institutions are actually supporting the innovative initiatives of the sector moving forward.
I don't know if you wanted to elaborate a bit more on whether you're finding that government agencies and so forth are seeing that your entity is an economic opportunity for first nations.
Executive Director, National Aboriginal Forestry Association
I don't think we get the recognition we need as a sector, and consequently one of the reasons I entitled our presentation “Thinking Outside the Box-The Aboriginal Forest Sector Acknowledged” is we don't think of aboriginal people in the forestry business as a sector on its own. However, it is unique. It does have real challenges. It does have differences, in a lot of ways, from the broad forest sector.
If we're going to address it, we have to recognize that and design solutions that are tailored to meet the special challenges that the aboriginal forest sector has. There are a lot of specific things around jurisdiction and the investment side—how we work with the bigger industry, how those partnerships are shaped.
Right now we've probably exhausted a lot of the potential partnerships with the big industry and we have to go out on our own and do a lot of our own development work, both on the product side and the market side, and we don't get recognition of the need to have to do that. The tenures that we have should be driving us that way, but no one seems to recognize that. We've made this argument in many different ways to the federal government, to provincial governments, and we've worked with first nations organizations across the country to do that.
The point is to gain that recognition for the sector and its potential. Brad pointed out the declining labour force in the forest industries right now, and the fact that our communities have youth with little prospects unless we fundamentally change how we do certain things. We have to seriously look at the forest sector in that regard, and there is potential. I'd love to talk to you more about it too.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Mr. Bombay.
Go ahead, Mr. Armstrong, for five minutes.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
Thank you, and I want to thank our witnesses for being here today.
First of all, I have a couple of questions for NACCA.
The AFI network has proven to be successful—we've seen a lot of evidence of that in developmental lending—but while some AFIs are high performers, there are some that are weaker. I think you would acknowledge that. Do you have a plan in place as to how you're going to support the weaker-performing AFIs?
Director, Corporate Development, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
Yes, actually, there is a plan in place at the moment. In the past year, we introduced an extensive business services officer guide, almost like a manual, to assist them. About two or three years ago we had developed a business services officer training course, or an analyzing a business plan course, that was subsequently accredited by the University of Regina. In the last 12 months, we've contracted with the same professor who did the business services officer course to develop a board of directors training course. It's been rolled out to at least three AFIs so far. The first three rated it an average 9.4 out of a possible 10, so it's received a good rating so far. It's in those kinds of things that we see we can have an effect in that way.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
Right now, then, your focus is going to be in the area of professional development.
Ms. Pelletier, you talked about four priorities that you have as you move into the future. Your fourth priority is the one I want to focus on, and that was the enhanced services you might be able to offer. Is a part of those enhanced services going to be in the area of home mortgages, infrastructure, financing on reserves, things like that? What type of enhanced services are you looking at?
Chair, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
Ian can talk to that.
Acting Chief Executive Officer, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
A prime example of the sort of initiatives we're trying to take, in terms of expanding client services, is an initiative we've got going in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut right now.
Essentially, a lot of aboriginal construction contractors have difficulty satisfying the requirements of bid bonds and security bonds, for a variety of reasons that relate to the same difficulties they have getting loans. We're running a pilot program right now. We've got $4 million of security sitting in our organization. We're using eight AFIs to deliver these letters of credit. Our national office is backing 75% of the risk, and the local office, because we need the local office to keep monitoring the situation, is taking 25% of the risk. We've got the territorial governments on side. The Comptroller General of the NWT is authorizing individual AFIs in the NWT to back letters of credit up to specific amounts, depending on their capabilities. In Nunavut, the deputy minister of industry has basically given the same approval to the three AFIs in Nunavut.
We've done one deal at the moment. We expect about six deals to mature in the next six months, and we fully expect to have about $1.5 million in letters of credit out in the next year.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
Great.
You discussed a loan framework that you've put in place. In it you focus more on character loans than on asset loans. Could you discuss the importance of that, and why that's particularly needed in the first nations community?
Director, Corporate Development, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
For the character types of loans that AFIs most often provide, there isn't adequate equity to secure the loans, or else it's very questionable or arguable. The level of experience in managing and operating a business is lacking. We compensate for it in that way: we'll take extra risk, identify where the risk is, and try to train and manage the client to a successful business.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
What you're saying is you actually take an active role in working with the client to put forward a successful business. You don't just make the loan and walk away. You're actually a partner in the operation itself.
Director, Corporate Development, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
Yes, and that's what drives the administrative costs up to 10%, which Kyle zeroed in on.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you so much.
Go ahead, Mr. Bevington, for five minutes.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to have two shots at it today. I'm pleased with that.
I have a couple of questions, one for the commissioner and then one for the others.
For the commissioner, I have a couple of questions on cumulative impact monitoring. We've waited a long time for this. Is there a plan for cumulative impact assessment and regulation?
The other thing is this: within the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, the provisions for the consideration of future induced development are considerably weaker than under Canadian environmental assessment regulation. How do you see those elements playing out in the future?
To you, I'd just like you to give me an idea of how a band on a reserve would deal with the infrastructure requirements. Let's say you have a development coming on the reserve that needs expanded sewer and water, needs roadways, and needs all the infrastructure. How would this band get the money to do the work so that they could attract the business or so that their planning process could go ahead in a good fashion?
Those are the two questions I have. Thanks.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Mr. Chair, thank you.
On the oil sands environmental monitoring—
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
No; I meant the cumulative impact monitoring for the Northwest Territories.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Correct. On that, we don't comment on policies. We follow the recommendations of the JRP. They came out with 176 recommendations; the National Energy Board had responded to some for which they had jurisdiction.
My understanding now is that since the response of the government, we haven't seen anything formally, so it may be useful, sir, to ask the departments where they are in putting in place those components of the recommendation. I don't know what....
It certainly hasn't received the attention in the Mackenzie Valley basin that it has in the oil sands, obviously. In the oil sands, as you know, they've put out an assessment process, and as I understand it, the current federal regulatory process as well as the provincial regulatory process would then be applied to whatever the results of those monitoring systems would reveal.
Director, Corporate Development, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
With respect to infrastructure financing, very few AFIs have even looked at it at this point. As far as I know, only one or two have, and one has done some.
The problem is that AFI capital is stretched to the limit without getting into capital-intensive infrastructure loans. As Lucy indicated in her presentation, the model needs a correction so that the cost of providing the loans can be recovered.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Then where is the mechanism for first nations to do this work?
Director, Corporate Development, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
Right now—and correct me if I'm wrong, Lucy—they end up going to the chartered banks, the conventional banks that they deal with. If they are able to get infrastructure loans, it's usually provided over a short term—five or seven years—versus the 30 years that you might get as a municipality.
AANDC has some human resources looking into that situation right now. First Nations Finance Authority is in place trying to meet that need, and they've established a fairly high threshold for first nations to be able to access those resources. They're looking at trying to do something below that high-jump bar.