Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Jan. 27th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Colleagues, I'm going to call this meeting to order. This is the 10th meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Colleagues, there are many folks from the public here today, and we want to thank each one of them for being here. It is our privilege to be here in Yellowknife this morning.

We want to thank the staff and the folks who have worked so diligently to make sure that we are accommodated here. There is quite a process any time that we take any standing committee on the road, of course, so there may yet be a few things that we have to work out this morning.

I want to indicate to our colleagues, as well as to those who will be presenting, that there are translation devices. We have translation in French and in English. If anybody is in need of those translation devices, they're available to those who are presenting.

Thank you to our translators and interpreters.

We're going to get started. First up, we're of course pleased and thankful that we have the opportunity to be joined by the premier.

Premier McLeod, thank you so much for joining us. It's good to see you here in Yellowknife. We've had the privilege of meeting in Ottawa, and we want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us.

This morning we have with us Shaleen Woodward, as well as Jamie Fulford.

Thank you so much for joining us here.

Premier, we will begin with you.

We want to welcome everyone who is making an opening statement. Then we will have some questions.

Again, thank you for being here and for inviting us to be here. I will turn it over to you now.

[Bob McLeod, Premier of the Northwest Territories, Government of the Northwest Territories]

Honourable members, thank you for the invitation to address the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. I'm pleased to be here on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories to speak to you about Bill C-15, the Northwest Territories devolution act.

Devolution of responsibility for public lands, resources, and water has been a priority for the people and the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories for many years. This is a momentous change for our territory and its people. We are pleased that your committee recognizes the significance of this step and has chosen to hold hearings on Bill C-15 in the north. This bill is a game-changer for northerners, and it is entirely appropriate that you hear directly from them as you review the proposed legislation.

Devolution promises to usher in a new era of prosperity and opportunity for the people of the Northwest Territories. Supported by an efficient, effective, and integrated regulatory regime, devolution will give northerners the necessary tools and authorities to responsibly develop the Territories' significant natural resource potential, promote investment and economic development, and manage the land and environment sustainably.

The north wants devolution. In a vote last June, members of the legislative assembly voted 17 to 1 in favour of the devolution agreement. The Government of the Northwest Territories and our five partner aboriginal governments have worked together to negotiate a deal that is in the best interests of all of our residents. After years of hard work, we are almost there, but we need to stay focused if we want to cross the finish line.

I want to thank all those who have worked with us to make the dream of a strong and autonomous Northwest Territories a reality: the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, the Northwest Territory Métis Nation, the Gwich’in Tribal Council, the Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated, and the Tlicho government.

Interest in being a part of devolution and enjoying the benefits it will bring to the people of the Northwest Territories is strong. Recent talks with the Akaitcho Dene First Nation and the Deninu K'ue First Nation look to be clearing the way for them to become signatories to the devolution agreement. We also continue to work with the Dehcho First Nations and the Akaitcho Treaty 8 Tribal Corporation, the remaining two regional aboriginal governments. We are hopeful that they will eventually sign on to devolution as well.

You will hear some alternative and maybe even opposing viewpoints on Bill C-15 while you are here in Yellowknife. Some of these are based on inaccurate or incorrect information. Some reflect different governance philosophies. Some simply reflect partisan viewpoints.

Whatever their views on this specific legislation, I hope that everybody in the Northwest Territories supports its basic premise: that decisions about the north should be made as close to home as possible. We want enhanced authority and self-determination for the people of the Northwest Territories and their elected representatives in the Northwest Territories legislative assembly.

Some people have asked whether the legislative powers and authorities of the Government of the Northwest Territories will really be expanded by devolution.

They will. As a result of devolution and Bill C-15, authority for 26 federal acts and regulations will be transferred to the Government of the Northwest Territories. Through devolution, members of the legislative assembly will gain the authority to make laws that they cannot make now. That is power that they do not have today but will have on April 1, 2014.

Some people have asked whether our government will be exercising independent authority when powers are delegated to us under the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act.

We will. The Government of the Northwest Territories already has responsibility for environmental management and regulation delegated to it under the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, and we have been exercising it for years. We will have more responsibilities after devolution.

These new powers and authorities are outlined in the negotiated and legally binding devolution agreement. I am confident that Canada intends to honour it. Some people point to the fact that the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act will continue to be federal legislation as a sign that Canada is trying to withhold powers from northerners or retain an ability to control and direct our government's decisions. That is simply untrue. We understand that the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act is a unique piece of legislation required by the land claims and providing for integrated environmental regulation on all lands in the Mackenzie Valley including federal and territorial lands, settlement lands, and private lands. Its continuation as federal law for the next five years reflects its unique nature, and we are satisfied with the provisions and the devolution agreement to review the status and potential power of these delegated powers to our government within five years.

I would also like to note that there is nothing to prevent us from initiating those discussions earlier. Some point to language in the bill allowing the federal government to disallow territorial legislation as an opportunistic expansion of federal powers in the Northwest Territories. This is a specious argument. There are comparable clauses in the 1867 Constitution Act that apply to all provinces and territories. This is not a new power and it does not diminish the authority of our government.

You will hear witnesses today express concerns about some of the changes to the Northwest Territories regulatory system that are being proposed as part of Bill C-15. Some northerners will find these changes difficult to accept, and that is what is behind some of the opposition you will encounter today. We need to be clear that devolution and regulatory reform are two different initiatives. Our government understands that regulatory improvement is a national priority that Canada is committed to pursuing. We recognize that the Northwest Territories does not exist in a vacuum and that there are national interests at play in this initiative. We respect that people are worried about the proposed regulatory improvements but we do not believe that is a reason to delay the devolution we have been seeking for so long.

As we consider Bill C-15, I want to urge the committee and the people of the Northwest Territories to not confuse the two initiatives. We need to focus on devolution and the ultimate goal we have been pursuing as a territory for decades: to enhance authority and autonomy for the people of the Northwest Territories. We need an efficient and effective regulatory system in the Northwest Territories that protects the public interest, allows us to manage our land and environment, and promotes responsible development.

I have always said that we would devolve and then evolve, and that continues to be our approach. The system that will be in place on the effective day will not be chiselled in stone. Our territory will continue to grow and evolve as we work with Canada and our aboriginal government partners to implement devolution in a way that respects the values and interests of all residents. Many of the proposed regulatory changes will be phased in over time. The proposed amalgamation of the land and water boards in the Mackenzie Valley will not take place until April 1, 2015, a year after the effective date for devolution.

We, the Government of the Northwest Territories, aboriginal governments, and Canada, will continue to work together to develop a regulatory system that will work for all of us, one that includes important features like retained regional capacity.

Decision-making closer to home has been our goal, and it is almost here. April 1, 2014, marks the beginning of a new chapter for our territory, one in which northern governments work together to create the kind of future we see for ourselves. Never before can I recall such a time of potential and future prosperity facing the people of our territory.

Soon the Government of the Northwest Territories will go from administering surface rights for only 1% of the Northwest Territories' land mass to being responsible for surface and subsurface rights on approximately 80%. We are the stewards of a great expanse of Canada's land mass. We look forward to a future where northern priorities are reflected in resource development and environmental management decisions.

We know our land. We know what matters to us. We have a vested interest in ensuring the long-term sustainability of our land. Our integrated co-management system will protect the economic, social, and cultural well-being of all of our people. Our time has come. It is time for northerners to make our own decisions about our economy, our environment, and our society.

Devolution is critical to the long-term well-being and prosperity of the people of the Northwest Territories and of Canada. The Government of the Northwest Territories supports the timely passage of this bill.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Premier. We thank you for taking the time...[Technical difficulty--Editor]...early opening statements.

We'll begin the rounds of questions with Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier McLeod, for...[Technical difficulty--Editor]...in Yellowknife. I'm glad to have the hearings here, although I think with the volume of witnesses we have in front of us, our work is really cut out to accomplish this in one day.

There are many issues with this. Also there is a great deal of agreement with...[Technical difficulty--Editor]...part of the devolution bill, or Bill C-15 . We are discussing the bill and not really the agreement. I think that's the important part of the work I do in Parliament—to look at the bill, not the agreement, because the bill is actually what will govern many of the aspects of our life here in the north. We need to always keep that in mind, that the bill is what we're here for today.

Certainly one aspect of the bill that you've mentioned, and you've mentioned again in an article in the newspaper here today, was about a review of the terms of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. You say it agrees to discuss devolving these powers within five years.

Is that your position on that?

[Bob McLeod]

Thank you for the question. We believe that after April 1, 2014, which is the effective transfer date, there's...I don't see why we can't discuss it with the government. The government has said five years, so nothing should prevent us from talking about it in between then, in that timeframe.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

But the government has agreed that this will not be discussed before five years is up. That's part of your agreement. Is that not correct?

[Bob McLeod]

The government of the day can choose to go earlier, if they decide to do so.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

But that's not part of...and this review is not part of the legislation as well; that's correct.

[Bob McLeod]

This is a political system. We don't feel that everything has to be in an agreement.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Many bills that go before the House of Commons on many issues will have a review process within them.

Would you support an amendment that would clearly outline what a review process would be within Bill C-15 so that this process, which is in the agreement, will be very well spelled out under law?

[Bob McLeod]

We have a commitment that it will be reviewed after five years. That's good enough for us.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

The commitment to review is actually a commitment to develop the terms of reference.

Is that not correct? There are no terms of reference for a review that's in place. Isn't that what the agreement says?

[Bob McLeod]

We have had long discussions with the Government of Canada. We have agreed that after five years we can look at reviewing and deciding on making further changes to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. This agreement was developed as part of the land claims negotiations with aboriginal governments and the Government of the Northwest Territories. We have reached an understanding that after five years we will review the agreement.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So this is—

[Bob McLeod]

Let me finish, okay?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I have only a limited time so I'd ask you to be brief.

[Bob McLeod]

We have had discussions with the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. I've also talked to the Prime Minister. It's very clear that some portions of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act can be very easily changed. We can have those discussions within the next five years.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Okay.

What you have is a discussion agreement about the nature of the review. That's all. That's pretty clear. We can say what we want about discussion agreements, but I would feel better, and many people would feel better, if these were more clearly outlined. The Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act is the one piece of this bill that is really under contention. It's not the devolution agreement. I think that's clear, as you pointed out and as many people here have said.

When it comes to putting these two bills together, it's been a bit of a difficult issue. Did you achieve consensus or support from the legislative assembly for the changes proposed by the Government of Canada to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act?

[Bob McLeod]

First of all, I'm not here to make you feel better. Secondly, this is federal legislation so it's up to the federal government to put forward this legislation.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Have you had an open discussion in the legislative assembly about the changes to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act proposed in Bill C-15?

[Bob McLeod]

This is federal legislation, so why would we have an open discussion in our territorial legislature? The federal institution is there for federal legislation. That's what the House of Commons is there for. That's what you are there for. We're not here to debate federal legislation. We debate our own territorial legislation.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

In previous testimony by Mr. Miltenberger, the government indicated that it wanted to see this devolution agreement put into law in a timely fashion. The Government of Canada indicated to them that only through supporting these changes to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act would you get that commitment from Canada to get this done by April 1.

So you were engaged in discussions on the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, weren't you? Did you share those discussions with your colleagues in the legislative assembly?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

I'm sorry. Your time is up, Mr. Bevington.

I don't know, Premier, if you'd like to respond with a final comment.

[Bob McLeod]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The member is suggesting that we can tell the federal government when and how to introduce its legislation, and that's not the case. We were briefed as a party on the proposed MVRMA changes along with the other aboriginal governments that have settled land claims.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

We'll turn now to Mr. Strahl for the next questions.