Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Jan. 27th, 2014

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier, for your comments.

It was good to see you a couple of weeks ago when we were with the Prime Minister in Inuvik celebrating the start of the construction on the completion of the Dempster Highway, which will bring the road system in Canada from coast to coast to coast. It was a great day of celebration in that community. It has been good to see you in Ottawa as well as a true champion of the Northwest Territories in standing up for the people here and advancing their interests. We certainly appreciate that.

I noted with interest Mr. Bevington's comments about how the bill wasn't large enough. He wanted more clauses added to it, in contrast to his previous comments that it's too big. But I wanted to talk briefly about the five regional aboriginal groups that participated in the agreement, that participated in the negotiations and signed the devolution agreement. Could you describe the involvement of the aboriginal groups in the process in regard to how they interacted with your government and how they were participants in the devolution process?

[Bob McLeod]

Thank you very much for the question.

As you know, devolution has been an ongoing feature in the Northwest Territories for over 40 years. The most recent round has been ongoing for about 12 years. We've made several different attempts. In the latest round, which resulted in this final devolution agreement, we worked very closely with our aboriginal government partners. They were involved every step of the way, and they were involved in the negotiations.

Also, as a government, we made sure that all of the information was shared with all the aboriginal governments whether or not they had signed on. We wanted to make sure that everybody knew what was being negotiated. I think it was very helpful to have our aboriginal government partners participate, because they added substantially to the negotiations, which also resulted in a much better final agreement.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

I know that the Senate Standing Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources certainly appreciated your testimony on December 5. Part of what you stated there was that your government, the GNWT, supports “an efficient and effective regulatory regime”. I was wondering if you could tell us in your view how the changes being proposed under this act helped to achieve that end of improving the efficiency and the effectiveness of the regulatory regime.

[Bob McLeod]

I think the biggest advantage will be the fact that they increased the authorities and that the decisions will be made by the people living in the north. The people who are most affected by the decisions will be making those decisions. I think those changes to the Mackenzie Valley RMA will prove that in due time. Also, I think we've learned that we can work very well with aboriginal governments. I think that in due course this whole process will be a benefit to the Northwest Territories.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Perhaps you can expand a little on that. I'm sure that the people of the Northwest Territories are well aware of the areas whereby authority is being delegated to the territory under the devolution agreement or under this proposed legislation, but perhaps you could explain for the rest of us, who aren't from here, just what is being transferred and what are some of the areas where the federal government is ceding that authority to the Northwest Territories. How do you think that will benefit your government and the people of the Northwest Territories?

[Bob McLeod]

The areas of land, water, and resource management will all be devolved to the Government of the Northwest Territories. We will also be responsible for oil and gas, mining, and their cumulative impacts. Those decisions of the 26 acts and regulations would mean that all of those authorities would be mirrored by the Government of the Northwest Territories and that we would be responsible for the operations.

On the Mackenzie Valley resource management side, as the decisions are made they will be put into effect under territorial legislation. Therefore, if a project goes forward for review and approval, the territorial minister responsible will approve the project. Any calls for bids on oil and gas will be made by the Government of the Northwest Territories. The Government of the Northwest Territories will then issue the appropriate permits. Similarly, for transboundary waters, the Government of the Northwest Territories will negotiate agreements and will sign off and finalize the transboundary water agreements that we negotiate, and so on and so forth.

It will be a significant change in the Northwest Territories as to how things are run and operated.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

We'll turn to Ms. Jones now for the next round of questions.

We're thankful that you're here. We know that you're standing because you were the one who travelled the furthest, from Labrador, to be here. We know that you are suffering from a back condition so thanks for joining us.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you.

Thanks very much, Premier, for the opportunity to be here this morning. I'd like to tell you it's an absolute pleasure to be in the Northwest Territories and to wake up to the great arctic air in such a beautiful place. Being a northerner myself, from Labrador, I don't let a little back pain stop me from making a long trip. You'll have to forgive me if you see me standing quite a bit today. I think all of us have had our little complications, so we know that it can sometimes be a little bit painful.

I have to say two things from the outset. First of all, I'd like to know how you secured that agreement for the highway money, because I could certainly use a big portion of that myself in Labrador. I'm sitting here watching the news and I'm saying, it's all possible. What you've done in the Northwest Territories by achieving such an agreement is that you've inspired us all to work a little harder to make things happen in our own northern regions of the country as well.

The second thing I would say is that I'm so envious of the Northwest Territories simply because you have an opportunity to govern yourselves, which is something that we have never had in Labrador. We're governed by people who live at a distance and who do not always understand the true meaning of what it is to live in the north and the struggles that we have. It's very important that when you are in a position to make decisions for yourself that you make the best decisions and good sound decisions.

Our role as a committee is to listen to what you have to say, to listen to all the people across the Northwest Territories, and that's why we're here today. You're right. This is a bill that will be debated in the legislature of the country. We will have the opportunity to voice our comments based on what you tell us in these sessions and to hopefully vote in a way that will be in the best interests of the people of the Northwest Territories. That's our goal in being here.

In your speech you talked about a new era of prosperity. My question to you would be: what does that mean? What does that mean for the aboriginal people and the aboriginal governments? What does that mean to the ordinary citizens of the Northwest Territories, when you talk about a new era of prosperity as a result of devolution?

[Bob McLeod]

Thank you for those questions.

I think we were able to secure funding for the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk highway by selling a dream or a vision, in which, for the first time in history, Canada will be able to say that we're joined from sea to sea to sea. I think that resonated and I think that, along with the tremendous oil and gas potential in the Beaufort area, was a large part of that.

I've also had the opportunity to travel to Labrador, your beautiful area. The first time I went I was struck, just reading some of the local papers and the local literature, by how a lot of the issues in Labrador and in the Northwest Territories are similar. The way I see it, with regard to the potential and the prosperity, we have a different way of approaching development. As we see it, in the past, the federal government was a long way away in Ottawa and it issued the development permits and collected the royalties. I think if we feel we will have development at a pace we are comfortable with, we can work with the developers to make things happen so we have balanced development.

I think that is the difference: that we can be more hands-on when it comes to the development and protection of our land and water and the environment.

Thank you.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

In your opening comments you also talked about discussions with the aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories and the support for the devolution agreement. We understand that there are issues now around the regulatory board piece, which have been coming forward to our committee. I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about that today.

Do you see that as an impediment to moving forward with devolution in the Northwest Territories? Do you think it is absolutely necessary to have that portion of the agreement in place now as opposed to five years from now in order for things to move forward in the Northwest Territories?

[Bob McLeod]

Thank you for the question.

I think that historically the Northwest Territories had a very comprehensive Dene-Métis claim that would have provided for land claim and resource management settlements covering all of the Northwest Territories. That didn't happen, so we have regional land claims. I think that with devolution and the land claims that have been settled and as we go further with land claims and resource management, all of the land will be managed by people in the Northwest Territories. We are setting up an intergovernmental council that will include all of the aboriginal governments who have signed on to devolution.

I think that over five years we can work together to come up with a better system. I think the land claim requirements have to be upheld, especially for those who have settled agreements. I think that with representation...and when I was involved early on with negotiating land claims, it was always understood that at some point when there was a larger board, they would move in that direction.

I believe we need devolution and we can work together to make the regulatory framework work.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Premier.

We'll turn to Mr. Leef now for the next seven minutes.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Premier, it's good to see you again. It's always a pleasure to be back in the Northwest Territories. I've been here quite a few times in the last year.

I'm a fellow northerner, and we always like to talk about our weather first. It seems every time I come here, it's to get a true taste of what winter is like. We sure have been enjoying some mild stuff in Whitehorse. In fact, the other day when I left, it was 13 degrees.

So there's my update on our weather. It's a necessary northern weather discussion.

It's good to breathe that arctic air, as Ms. Jones was saying.

Mr. Premier, awhile ago you wrote in an article in The Hill Times that this is fulfilling the promise made 46 years ago, secured through the ongoing development of a fully elected and representative legislative assembly in the Northwest Territories.

There has been some discussion around the level of consultation. Of course that's why we're here in the Northwest Territories again today, to further consult on Bill C-15. There have been numerous discussions going on. It certainly hasn't just happened over the last year or handful of years. As you noted, it's been a long time coming.

Could you give us a little bit of background on the history of devolution talks in the Northwest Territories and the input that has gone into it over the years? Perhaps you can build a bit on the comments you've made in the past about aboriginal governments being critical partners in the negotiation of devolution, and the fact that they're necessary to its successful implementation. I know you were able to highlight that your government has agreed to share 25% of resource revenues with aboriginal governments as part of devolution, which I think is important and significant.

Perhaps you could quickly touch on the long-term goal of the Northwest Territories to realize devolution and how much discussion has gone on in this territory over the years toward that goal.

[Bob McLeod]

Thank you for the question. It's always good to see a neighbouring jurisdiction represented here.

Devolution started probably over 40 years ago. I believe the first responsibilities that were devolved from the Government of Canada to the Northwest Territories were for wildlife management and education. I think the one event that is most recognized as providing for devolution was the transfer of the Government of the Northwest Territories to Yellowknife in 1967.

Over the course of those years, I guess all of the responsibilities that our government has have devolved from the federal government, including health, firefighting, and the responsibility for scientific research. About 12 or 15 years ago, we started working on the last piece of the puzzle. We put together a process called the “aboriginal summit”, in which the Government of Canada and the Government of the Northwest Territories had a process, involving all of the aboriginal governments, to work on devolution of land, water, resource management, oil and gas, and mining—all of the remaining functions. As we used to say, all the easy programs had been devolved by then. The hard part to be devolved still remained.

So we had the aboriginal summit, and when that process failed, the next government set up a process called the aboriginal forum. All the aboriginal governments participated. They all agreed on what the definition of an aboriginal government was. Again, that process went on and failed, or was stopped at some point, so as a government we took a different approach. We started a northern forum, whereby the premiers of the day would meet with the aboriginal government leaders on a regular basis.

We started negotiations with the Government of Canada and negotiated for several years until we finally reached and signed off on an AIP and eventually were able to have five aboriginal government partners sign on. As I said, we made sure that we kept all of the aboriginal governments informed of progress in the negotiations. We are continuing to have discussions and to work with the two aboriginal governments that have not signed on yet: the Dehcho First Nations and the Akaitcho Treaty 8 Tribal Corporation.

We also have individual land claim negotiations where we are close to having the committee sign on to devolution.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

On that point, Mr. Premier, there have been some claims that the regulatory improvements and devolution itself would stall ongoing land claims. Of course, the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development has said that there's nothing here that will affect the comprehensive land claims process that's taking place, that he has committed that the negotiations will go on, and that in his view it may create an impetus to actually reach an agreement sooner. Would you share that viewpoint?

[Bob McLeod]

Yes, I certainly believe that, especially with the discussions we've been having with the Dehcho First Nations. The grand chief and I signed off on terms of reference whereby we have a senior officials working group that has been working since approximately May of last year. We've made significant progress in dealing with some difficult land issues, to the extent that I think we're very close to being able to make some announcements, not only on the land side but also on the devolution side.

We are also looking to start a similar process with the Akaitcho. We're very close to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Premier.

We'll turn to Mr. Bevington for the next five minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think, Premier McLeod, the work that you've been doing to bring first nations into the devolution agreement has been commendable. I said that in Parliament. I think that's something that you can rest very well on, but this bill is not simply about that.

I want to go back. When did the federal government inform you that Bill C-15 would contain the regulatory changes? When did they tell you that this bill was going to come forward as a single entity?

[Bob McLeod]

I believe it was in the fall of 2013. We had some discussions before. We were pushing hard for devolution to occur in 2014. When I first met with the Prime Minister when I was first elected as premier, our government wanted devolution to occur as soon as possible. When I met with the Prime Minister, he indicated that his officials had told him that they were working towards a 2015 timeline.

I told him that our government preferred to have it occur in 2014 because we were concerned that if we left it until 2015, it would become an election issue. The federal government had an election scheduled for October 2015, and similarly our government had an election scheduled for October 2015. If we left it—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you for that. I have a few more questions and I only have five minutes.

When did you let your aboriginal partners in this know that the bill was going to come forward as a single bill?

[Bob McLeod]

I think the Government of Canada had been working on this regulatory improvement initiative for two or three years. They had been working with the aboriginal governments, and—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

That wasn't my question. I asked you when you informed the aboriginal partners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Mr. Bevington, with all due respect, the premier is answering your questions. I know that you're under a tight timeframe, but I think that we do respect the witnesses and I encourage you to allow the premier to finish.

[Bob McLeod]

Thank you.

It wasn't my responsibility to inform anybody about the federal legislation, but I do know that, probably later in 2013, the expectation or the understanding that they were all coming together was implicit. If we wanted to have devolution in 2014, it was very likely that was going to happen.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

We have a consensus government in the Northwest Territories. At what point do you think that it's important that the process be shared outside of the cabinet, with the legislative assembly, with your partners in the deal? Do you think in the kind of government that you represent...? It is a consensus government. You weren't elected on a political platform appealing to the whole Northwest Territories, you're elected as a single MLA. Did you think at any time that it's appropriate to share all the information on this very important effort on the part of your government with the rest of the Northwest Territories?